How much time is left for WMC?

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bob_p

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How much time is left for WMC?

#1

Post by bob_p » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:47 pm

Can anyone find an official statement from Microsoft stating their policy for continuing WMC support, now that they are no longer supporting the consumer version of Windows 7 and WMC was only an add-on purchased through the Microsoft Store for Windows 8.x (which was discontinued last fall)?

It's great the guide service is working again - which should keep it running for now, at least until the fall DST switch - but unless Microsoft has made an official statement of their plans on end-of-life support for WMC, we're all just guessing on this - and hoping that each time we hit a problem like this, Microsoft will get it working again. Without an official statement on EOL for WMC, there will be a point in time (hopefully years from now) when Microsoft won't fix the program guide - and the remaining WMC users may not have any warning of the end coming.

[Moderator note: topic split from EPG DST thread]

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Skybolt

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#2

Post by Skybolt » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:04 pm

bob_p wrote:Can anyone find an official statement from Microsoft stating their policy for continuing WMC support, now that they are no longer supporting the consumer version of Windows 7 and WMC was only an add-on purchased through the Microsoft Store for Windows 8.x (which was discontinued last fall)? ...
We would all love to see that, the fact is that MS has discontinued all support for WMC, all versions as you have noted ...

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Skybolt

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#3

Post by Skybolt » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:08 pm

Crash2009 wrote:Cancel your Tivo order.
Not me, I am going to make the switch. It's been a nice run but the fact is that Tivo actually offers a lot more then 7MC does at this point. Sad to see it go, but the writing on the wall is starting to crack and peel ...

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#4

Post by tch65721 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:31 pm

Skybolt wrote:
Crash2009 wrote:Cancel your Tivo order.
Not me, I am going to make the switch. It's been a nice run but the fact is that Tivo actually offers a lot more then 7MC does at this point. Sad to see it go, but the writing on the wall is starting to crack and peel ...
Agree. They ran it right down to the wire this time. I'm taking it as a warning to move on... though I'm not sure exactly where to go. Tivo is certainly the most stable. Wish I had not missed that Roamio deal last year, their prices now really suck.

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#5

Post by adam1991 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:20 pm

Skybolt wrote:
Crash2009 wrote:Cancel your Tivo order.
Not me, I am going to make the switch. It's been a nice run but the fact is that Tivo actually offers a lot more then 7MC does at this point. Sad to see it go, but the writing on the wall is starting to crack and peel ...
Technically Tivo looks like the superior solution, and I've no doubt it is.

The one thing that makes me look at Tablo instead is guide data. With Tivo the paid guide service is tied to the Tivo hardware, and when the hardware is gone, you have to buy the guide service again (or else just pay $15/month in perpetuity). With Tablo, it's $150 for my lifetime of however many Tablos I want--even simultaneously.

It's a nit.

But Tablo also has streaming capabilities not yet available on Tivo, which is interesting. And frankly, that Tablo requires an external hard drive is a plus. Hard drives fail, and replacing them shouldn't put me in the position of paying a bunch of money to Tivo, or voiding my warranty by opening the case.

In other words, Tivo has a great revenue stream set up, and I'm not ready to jump on it and be married to them. Tablo lets me buy it like a candy bar and be done with paying them.

The only thing I know right now is, WMC is a short-timer at this point. What to do next, I really don't know. Maybe I'm waiting for the Tivo Pro, to see what it looks like. Big hard drive and 4K, no doubt, and maybe all the streaming capability--at least for OTA shows without DRM.

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Skybolt

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#6

Post by Skybolt » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:00 pm

adam1991 wrote:... Technically Tivo looks like the superior solution, and I've no doubt it is. ...
For me it's been around for a long time, I don't really like the idea of switching to Tivo, except it's the only proven solution left that looks like it will be around for a while. I am truly tired of messing around every few months to simply watch tv. 10+ years ago setting up a WMC box was cool, and it still is to a degree, except MS bailed on us and we all know our time is limited and will need to switch in the near future. At least most of us will.

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Skybolt

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#7

Post by Skybolt » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:02 pm

adam1991 wrote: ... The only thing I know right now is, WMC is a short-timer at this point. What to do next, I really don't know. Maybe I'm waiting for the Tivo Pro, to see what it looks like. Big hard drive and 4K, no doubt, and maybe all the streaming capability--at least for OTA shows without DRM.
You should look at the Romeo Pro HD, it's not 4K,but it is the rest and it's on sale at Amazon.

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#8

Post by adam1991 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:22 pm

The Pro requires digital cable. I need the Roamio OTA.

On Amazon, someone's selling one with lifetime (of the unit) guide service for $580. Then I'd have to have two or three media streamers at about $100 each. I could have $800 in that. Oh, and that 500GB hard drive in the OTA would have to go--which means my (a) opening the case and voiding the warranty, and (b) spending $50 more on a bigger drive.

Tablo is $300 plus a $50 hard drive plus $150 for guide service for MY lifetime, for as many Tablo units as I may end up having. It hooks into my Roku ecosystem, which avoids the whole thing about purchasing additional streamers at each TV. So in its own way, a Tablo/Roku system presents itself as integrated (almost) as Tivo. Eh. And should I want 4K, it's easy enough to buy the newest Roku at any given time and up my capabilities without changing how the household works.

But 'tis true, I don't need 4K at all. On the other hand, if I get a Tivo it will replace my dual WMC/Roku setups around the house--and I'd hate to do that now only to have the Tivo Pro come out a month later giving me the ability to stream 4K from Netflix, for example.

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Skybolt

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#9

Post by Skybolt » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:27 pm

I was lucky I guess, I got a Pro HD 3T storage for that price. I get the money thing and yes the initial lay out leaves a mark, but it's only a one time hit. It's not too bad to recover from that. Also for me I subscribe to all of the premiums as well as FS1 and NBCSN, which tablo doesn't support. So I don't have a choice really. Let us know how the tablo setup works, sounds interesting.

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#10

Post by webminster » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:12 pm

I like the looks of the Roamio Pro HD... but can you push files off it onto NAS? One thing I'm going to miss on my WMC setup is the 18TB NAS backing it.
-Alan

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#11

Post by redmed » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:50 pm

tch65721 wrote:
Skybolt wrote:
Crash2009 wrote:Cancel your Tivo order.
Not me, I am going to make the switch. It's been a nice run but the fact is that Tivo actually offers a lot more then 7MC does at this point. Sad to see it go, but the writing on the wall is starting to crack and peel ...
Agree. They ran it right down to the wire this time. I'm taking it as a warning to move on... though I'm not sure exactly where to go. Tivo is certainly the most stable. Wish I had not missed that Roamio deal last year, their prices now really suck.
I have a Tivo Roamio with lifetime I bought during the Rovi switchover. I have tried using it as my primary and after a few weeks I have delegated the Tivo as a backup to my WMC setup. I have my WMC connected to two different TV antennas one pointing to Detroit the other towards Lansing using two SiliconDust tuners. This is something Tivo can not do. The ability to access two different sets of TV stations gives me a much greater choice of shows. Plus I have used a wireless mouse on the arm of my lazyboy to control WMC for years and find the Tivo remote cumbersome. For me I'm sticking with WMC for as long as I can.

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#12

Post by Crash2009 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:25 am

Never thought I'd see this day. It appears the WMC Fanbois are outnumbered at a home game.

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#13

Post by Sammy2 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:48 am

Crash2009 wrote:Never thought I'd see this day. It appears the WMC Fanbois are outnumbered at a home game.
I'm just staying out of the fray because the whole discussion is off point and ridiculous.

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#14

Post by adam1991 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:19 am

Sammy2 wrote:
Crash2009 wrote:Never thought I'd see this day. It appears the WMC Fanbois are outnumbered at a home game.
I'm just staying out of the fray because the whole discussion is off point and ridiculous.
You mean the discussion of "WMC is dying a little more every day, and many of us are making plans to move on before being stuck having to move on without notice"?

THAT discussion? Off point and ridiculous???

That's ridiculous.

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#15

Post by garyan2 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:50 am

^ now you gotta admit ... that's funny.
- Gary
Keeping WMC alive beyond January 2020. https://garyan2.github.io

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#16

Post by Sammy2 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:03 pm

adam1991 wrote:
Sammy2 wrote:
Crash2009 wrote:Never thought I'd see this day. It appears the WMC Fanbois are outnumbered at a home game.
I'm just staying out of the fray because the whole discussion is off point and ridiculous.
You mean the discussion of "WMC is dying a little more every day, and many of us are making plans to move on before being stuck having to move on without notice"?

THAT discussion? Off point and ridiculous???

That's ridiculous.
garyan2 wrote:^ now you gotta admit ... that's funny.
While there's a point there, I'm giving it a few more years yet and people like Gary are doing a fine job of giving it even longer than that.

I'm still working on the EPG123 guide and keep delaying it because I want enough time to complete the task, which I don't have during the week. I would have done it last weekend but we were out of town and I couldn't do it so maybe this weekend but it would seem the better half has other plans for my time this weekend too.

All that said, I was reading through the Conditions of Use for Schedules Direct and it says that it is for non-commercial personal use. How does that work when it is used as a replacement guide for WMC? Is is it still considered personal use because it is an optional thing personally chosen by the end user and not used directly by Microsoft? Just curious.

To keep on topic, my Rovi Guide updated yesterday and I now have data out until March 28, about 6pm.

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#17

Post by captain_video » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:37 pm

Everyone that went into a panic over this situation should change their name to Chicken Little. I was never worried about the guide data running out. I believe Rovi provides guide data for the X-Box so the odds of Microsoft completely dropping the ball were slim to none. FWIW, I bought six Roamio OTA's with lifetime from Amazon for $300 each a while back. I installed 4TB drives in them and sold them on eBay. I have no intention of going back to TiVo as long as I can keep using WMC. People are too impatient these days and go into a panic over the slightest imposition. The fact is, we've all seen lack of guide data updates, but we have never completely run out. Microsoft has always stepped up and fixed the problem before that happened and I never thought otherwise about the current situation. As long as they provide data for X-Boxes then I expect to see it available to WMC users. Tivos are great, but I like my HTPC better. If the thought of having to tweak a HTPC is too much for you then all I can say is, enjoy your Tivos. Just don't whine when you find out that your lifetime service goes away when the TiVo dies.

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#18

Post by Space » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:14 pm

captain_video wrote:Everyone that went into a panic over this situation should change their name to Chicken Little. I was never worried about the guide data running out. I believe Rovi provides guide data for the X-Box so the odds of Microsoft completely dropping the ball were slim to none. FWIW, I bought six Roamio OTA's with lifetime from Amazon for $300 each a while back. I installed 4TB drives in them and sold them on eBay. I have no intention of going back to TiVo as long as I can keep using WMC. People are too impatient these days and go into a panic over the slightest imposition. The fact is, we've all seen lack of guide data updates, but we have never completely run out. Microsoft has always stepped up and fixed the problem before that happened and I never thought otherwise about the current situation. As long as they provide data for X-Boxes then I expect to see it available to WMC users. Tivos are great, but I like my HTPC better. If the thought of having to tweak a HTPC is too much for you then all I can say is, enjoy your Tivos. Just don't whine when you find out that your lifetime service goes away when the TiVo dies.
Rovi providing data to XBox has little to do with fixing the import of Rovi data to WMC (which is where the problem lies). There are supposedly only a couple people at Microsoft that understand how to fix this issue and if those people leave or are on vacation, or.... then what? Plus they provide little to no feedback, so we have no idea if anyone even knows about the problem when it is occurring. The fear is justified... and Microsoft certainly realizes that each time they do this, there are a few more people that scramble to move away from WMC and are more likely to upgrade to Windows 10 (which they seem very focused on accomplishing).

I don't think that Microsoft will just stop providing data without any forewarning, but I certainly think that they can drop the ball and not fix the problem before the listings run out (in which case we may be without any listings for several days). Just the fact that the problem persists for 9 days before they fix it is testament to that.

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#19

Post by adam1991 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:26 pm

Sammy2 wrote:While there's a point there, I'm giving it a few more years yet and people like Gary are doing a fine job of giving it even longer than that.
And some diehards are still using ReplayTV, despite its level death.

It's a matter of degrees. Some people are willing to futz and play with it harder than others, no doubt for the sake of having a hobby of futzing with it. Many don't want to do that. At some point along the continuum, everybody finds his stopping point.

But the fact remains, WMC is dying and it's a matter of when--not if--its value falls below the line of effort expended to keep it on life support.

And that's what we're all discussing.

That YOU think "oh, it's ridiculous to think that it's dying" is just you sticking your head in the sand. Get it out of there and look around, and you'll see that you are in the minority on thinking that WMC has "a few more years" of value.

That's not to say you don't think so; that's to say that others do think so. But the one thing you can't dispute is that the entire WMC reliability experience is going downhill.

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#20

Post by captain_video » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:43 pm

Nothing is dead if you can keep it alive. The fact that Microsoft will eventually stop providing guide data is a foregone conclusion. My point about Rovi and the X-Box was that Microsoft is already providing guide data so it's just a matter of getting it out to WMC users. I assumed it was an automated process that doesn't know how to deal with the DST changes. I intend to look into EPG123 and get away from Rovi entirely. From that perspective, WMC will never die as long as it gets fed guide data.

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