Thought experiment - WMC replacements

Chat with other TGB members about whatever is on your mind.
IownFIVEechos

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#21

Post by IownFIVEechos » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:39 pm

I am in the same boat about the missing apps. I put my first Shield up last night to make sure it worked. I don't get why we cant have the same apps. I understand the amazon thing for sales reasons. But I am a person who has roku's at each tv and would love for this Shield to replace it. But that can not happen until Disney Jr is on it. The roku is awesome on that app. It will just keep playing episode after episode after episode! I got the shields at $150 with remote from amazon. I am looking each day for more! I have a bunch of Nexus players but not sure I will use them. The shield with the game subscription looks sweet. Just need the apps to be added! I will try the HBO Go and see if it performs well enough.

I also got a nice reminder how bad the echo hardware is. I barely touched it to put an HDMI cable by it and I got the 'NO MAC ADDRESS' error on it! Had to pull the power cord and reset the Ethernet. CAN NOT TOUCH IT!

Ed 

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#22

Post by Ed  » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:59 pm

Well also I have a HDHR Prime hooked up to it so I can just watch the stuff on TV live like for WatchESPN instead of needing the app also.

JTScribe

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#23

Post by JTScribe » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:10 pm

IownFIVEechos wrote:I am in the same boat about the missing apps. I put my first Shield up last night to make sure it worked. I don't get why we cant have the same apps. I understand the amazon thing for sales reasons. But I am a person who has roku's at each tv and would love for this Shield to replace it. But that can not happen until Disney Jr is on it. The roku is awesome on that app. It will just keep playing episode after episode after episode! I got the shields at $150 with remote from amazon. I am looking each day for more! I have a bunch of Nexus players but not sure I will use them. The shield with the game subscription looks sweet. Just need the apps to be added! I will try the HBO Go and see if it performs well enough.

I also got a nice reminder how bad the echo hardware is. I barely touched it to put an HDMI cable by it and I got the 'NO MAC ADDRESS' error on it! Had to pull the power cord and reset the Ethernet. CAN NOT TOUCH IT!
Can't you side-load Amazon Prime on the Shield?

How do the channel apps work on the set top boxes? On our Roku we basically just have Plex, Amazon, and Netflix set up. Are new shows up within 24 hours of the original airdate?

IownFIVEechos

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#24

Post by IownFIVEechos » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:17 pm

I too use the hdhomerun. The View app works pretty good wirelessly; but I like the google tv app because when you back out of the tv into the home screen you can still hear and see the program in the background. SD needs that feature! I don't know about the side loading, and the cable box app question I don't understand. Hope that helps.

Ed 

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#25

Post by Ed  » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:20 pm

IownFIVEechos wrote:I too use the hdhomerun. The View app works pretty good wirelessly; but I like the google tv app because when you back out of the tv into the home screen you can still hear and see the program in the background. SD needs that feature! I don't know about the side loading, and the cable box app question I don't understand. Hope that helps.
The View app sucks, the Live Channels app is all I use.


JTScribe wrote:
IownFIVEechos wrote:I am in the same boat about the missing apps. I put my first Shield up last night to make sure it worked. I don't get why we cant have the same apps. I understand the amazon thing for sales reasons. But I am a person who has roku's at each tv and would love for this Shield to replace it. But that can not happen until Disney Jr is on it. The roku is awesome on that app. It will just keep playing episode after episode after episode! I got the shields at $150 with remote from amazon. I am looking each day for more! I have a bunch of Nexus players but not sure I will use them. The shield with the game subscription looks sweet. Just need the apps to be added! I will try the HBO Go and see if it performs well enough.

I also got a nice reminder how bad the echo hardware is. I barely touched it to put an HDMI cable by it and I got the 'NO MAC ADDRESS' error on it! Had to pull the power cord and reset the Ethernet. CAN NOT TOUCH IT!
Can't you side-load Amazon Prime on the Shield?

How do the channel apps work on the set top boxes? On our Roku we basically just have Plex, Amazon, and Netflix set up. Are new shows up within 24 hours of the original airdate?
If you sideload it you need to use a mouse - that's why sideloading sucks.

It's the same stuff you get on the apps on any other device.

IownFIVEechos

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#26

Post by IownFIVEechos » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:23 pm

I wonder why the Shield can still be sold at Amazon. Probably because NVidia would stop selling all its video cards too!

Ed 

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#27

Post by Ed  » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:25 pm

IownFIVEechos wrote:I wonder why the Shield can still be sold at Amazon. Probably because NVidia would stop selling all its video cards too!
Cause the SHIELD is a Micro-Console™ not a STB lol.

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#28

Post by JTScribe » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:09 pm

There's no way to VNC/Remote Desktop into a WMC system with say, a Shield, is there?

Ed 

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#29

Post by Ed  » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:13 pm

JTScribe wrote:There's no way to VNC/Remote Desktop into a WMC system with say, a Shield, is there?
Yeah, there's Team Viewer for the SHIELD IIRC

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... rket&hl=en

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#30

Post by JTScribe » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:39 pm

I wonder if that would work with protected content, to watch it through that connection.

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#31

Post by JTScribe » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:55 pm

Ha!

Just my luck . . . bought a new Roku 3-series. Set it up at lunch . . . . all the Netflix streams I tried were capped at 720p, just like my browsers. Facepalm.

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#32

Post by JTScribe » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:18 pm

Whew, figured it out. Glorious! Looks much better than browser streams.

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DavidinCT

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#33

Post by DavidinCT » Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:12 am

JTScribe wrote:I've been Googling around looking at latest options. Currently I'd say I'm about 85-90% satisfied with my setup although there are a few oddities that kind of drive me crazy.

So here's what I use my system for at this point in time . . .

Ceton 6-tuner . . . I do record and watch protected content (HBO)
Blu-Ray optical drive . . . we do periodically watch physical disks. Bitstreaming of HD audio formats works perfectly for me with physical and server-based files.
My Movies . . . I have a variety of VIDEO_TS, .ISO, and MKV files on a server.
Netflix . . . . my first annoyance; limited to 720p by Windows 7 IE and my TV's app, despite having more than fast enough Internet.
Amazon Prime . . . using the Snapple plug-in. Works well.
Guide . . . . for me has been just okay since the switchover, although it still thinks that Teen Titans is a new episode every time it airs. Can Kodi use Zap2It?

It seems to me that most ways I go about it I lose something.

I can move to a ServerWMC setup and run something like Kodi on a Shield or other STB . . . but . . . I know there are problems with the apps supporting bitstreaming at the moment. Will ISOs work? Netflix would work natively at 1080p here. If I lose protected content I still have access to HBOGo as needed. This also kills any optical drive support unless I go with something like a PS4 (which, would that even run Kodi?). I suppose I could use my existing HTPC hardware to run Kodi, which keeps the optical drive hardware and capabilities, but are there any Netflix plugins that work at full resolution in Windows 7 with that app? I guess I need to do more research.

Juggling all the beans it seems like trying to go to Windows 8 would be my 'best' option, as I would keep protected content, optical drive, My Movies, and have the added ability to use the updated Netflix app at 1080p. Of course then you have the problem getting the Pro Pack license.

Let's be honest I really don't NEED to do anything, but have just been trying to compose my thoughts on the matter. What do you all think? Anyone going through similar mental gymnastics?
I'm with you here. Windows 7 / Windows 8.1 w/WMC is a solid option with some tricks or special software you can do a lot with it, although 3rd party options (like Blu-ray) can be a little flakey at times. I have also battled this question as well MANY TIMES, Is there an other option that will do everything ? What costs ? I want a PC for this, as it gives the possibility to give me more flexibility than any dedicated BOX. Don't get me wrong, I love WMC....but, I just want more.

My dream is like you, a dedicated machine that does almost EVERYTHING, from Blu-ray, DVR, 4K, movies, Music, streaming content and everything the internet can offer for media options....And oh, making all that content 100% available on another TV/AV system for a low cost... With DRM'ed channel support...

sigh....Media Center was that item and still does what it did 5 years ago but, it's getting very dated now and is showing it's limits..
-Dave
Twitter @TheCoolDave

Windows Media Center certified and WMC MVP 2010 - 2012

bob_p

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#34

Post by bob_p » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:53 pm

Using a PC backend, today the only option that supports DRM (cablecard) is WMC.

SiliconDust's DVR project may be an alternative, but the project is taking longer than their Kickstarter supporters expected, the current "progress build" is still early "proof of concept" and doesn't yet support DRM. Plus, they've made several design decisions (no program guide grid, requiring online access to their server to view any program information or do anything related to recording or playback) that may not be accepted by WMC users.

JRiver was unsuccessful in getting Kickstarter funding to license Microsoft's PlayReady DRM technology - and, at least so far, they haven't indicated they are considering a "plan B" for adding DRM to their Media Center.

As of today, I'm planning to continue using WMC on Windows 8.1 with our house full of Xbox 360 extenders, and will continue monitoring the SD DVR project. However, since it looks like that project may not produce a viable WMC replacement, and I am also planning to more closely investigate non-PC alternatives, such as TiVo or Comcast's X1 AnyRoom DVR service so that when Microsoft does something that kills WMC or the Xbox extenders, I'll be able to quickly shift to something else.

The best strategy for a WMC replacement would be for SD to focus more on providing their DRM/DVR software to 3rd parties - and get them to integrate that capability into their existing solutions. There are several existing WMC alternatives that lack DRM support - and if SD could help them add that, we might end up with more than one option for a WMC replacement - with 3rd parties continuing to evolve their software (which Microsoft stopped doing for WMC a long time ago).

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DavidinCT

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#35

Post by DavidinCT » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:59 pm

bob_p wrote:Using a PC backend, today the only option that supports DRM (cablecard) is WMC.

SiliconDust's DVR project may be an alternative, but the project is taking longer than their Kickstarter supporters expected
So far, through out all this time for the money that they took, SiliconDust's PVR project is a JOKE. The interface for one is bad, any way you look at it (not good for a HTPC), all version as of now, do not support DRM with cablecards. They just keep saying "soon" but, after this time, I think they ran into a big issue that they cant resolve. After all that money they got for the kickstarter and so far, this ???? I have been watching progress, although it will do DRM, it does not look like any option I would even think about (UNLESS it can be plugged into other products like a back end or something, MAYBE).

I wish Jriver actually got supported, I even put in $60 for that project as it could of been almost complete package/replacement for WMC.

The HDR DVR project has changed my view on the company as a whole.... I would have seriously think about it, if I was looking at one of their products.

Windows Media Center still looks like the ONLY option to play back DRM based content.....PERIOD. I just wish Microsoft would re-think a full PC option again...they have it all but, broken up between the Xbox one and Windows 10... if they could get all their features in a nice remote controlled 10 foot experience we would have a serious game changer for this market....and would kick ass if done right...

Sigh....What Windows Media Center COULD of been....
-Dave
Twitter @TheCoolDave

Windows Media Center certified and WMC MVP 2010 - 2012

epayson85

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#36

Post by epayson85 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:38 am

Firetv + Emby + serverwmc.... I am loving it so far. No drm content but I don't watch premium content and if I did i could use hbogo app.

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#37

Post by 3rob3 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:33 pm

epayson85 wrote:Firetv + Emby + serverwmc.... I am loving it so far. No drm content but I don't watch premium content and if I did i could use hbogo app.
But doesn't everything have to be transcoded on the Fire devices for Mpeg2? I like where Emby is headed with their Live TV Server, but it is too buggy for me as it is now.

I will probably make my own post on this, but I have moved to Shield and Nexus Android TV devices at my main viewing areas and it is working really well. The Shield in particular is one hell of a device! It is just so unbelievably fast. I run Kodi (Jarvis beta), ServerWMC and Emby run on my Win7 based WMC server in basement. Emby plugs right into the Kodi library and ServerWMC provides Live TV integration. Though I am still using WMC as the back end, it could easily move to NextPVR or others if something ever goes belly up with WMC. The Shield is hands down the best Netflix player I have ever seen, it is so fast. With HBO-Go, Amazon Prime (via recent XDA hack), PBS Kids, and all the other streaming apps I have everything available in one device/input/remote.
**DISCLAIMER**
All my cablecard channels are copy-freely so this obviously wouldn't work for everyone. If my cable company ever changes this I will dump them and go OTA only (already running HDhomerun/antenna). In fact if it wasn't for a recurring billing discrepancy in my favor I would have already gone OTA only.

JTScribe

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#38

Post by JTScribe » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:19 pm

The HBOGo app is nice enough that if I have to switch to a PVR that doesn't supported protected content I should hopefully be okay.

I'm in the process of converting my ISO Blu Rays to MKV episodes, and when that's done I'll be shifted over completely from My Movies to Plex. At that point all my HTPC will be used for is optical playback and recorded and live TV. Now that NextPVR supports Ceton cards I at least have that as an option, if there's another major guide issue I may switch to it just to get a better guide than Rovi.

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#39

Post by epayson85 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:47 pm

I'm trying to understand why everyone is going to plex over emby. I have used both extensively and I must say emby is the clear front runner. Especially when it comes to live TV / recorded tv management. Not to mention emby already has its own solution that doesn't even require serverwmc. Granted I use serverwmc for now just because emby doesn't have support for ceton tuners without it but that will be fixed. Also I still plan to use wmc until its dead so emby with an amazon firetv acts like the extender that the ceton echo could never be. Still when wmc does eventually die... the clear replacement for it is Emby. It does an incredible job organizing media, it has a tv guide, can record shows, can be used on SO MANY platforms. Detects if you are on the home network or connecting via Wan to know if it needs to transcode or not. I have finally left mymovies and now use EMBY exclusively to organize my media and it was a little bumpy... however, now with it all setup it just out performs everything. Once the new emby theater is released with the newly designed tv guide then I may end up only using wmc as the backend for just my recordings.

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#40

Post by 3rob3 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:54 pm

I found Emby's Android app to be too buggy and crashy (maybe because they are using VLC to do the playback?), and guide to slow. Also, last I checked you couldn't even timeshift live TV yet. Kodi does a vastly superior job with Live TV/DVR on Android devices. Like I said though, I like where they are headed it's just not ready yet (for me at least).

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