Silicondust DVR Kickstarter

[Ed]

Wow....

Where to start?

Questions asked by the community to SD:
The fact that questions/posts are being removed/deleted by SD is NOT COOL. There's no denying that it happed. We all saw it. And then to come on here and say that they are building what the community is asking for, is pure crap. The Grid EPG was very high on the 'what the community is asking for' list, until SD started removing/deleting things. That is not good PR for this company. If they are allowing certain someone's to control 'what the community is asking for', then they only have hurt themselves and their reputation.

It's all good - look how well that(those) attempt(s) at 'damage control' and/or 'whitewashing' worked out for them

[ajhieb]

Tuners:
Like I said above, I helped set up 23 homes with WMC, Ceton Tuners and XBox360's. Myself included will be 24. That's 24 homes that would have to change their hardware just to use what SD is creating. I understand that it's SD creating the software, and that they would (of course) want this to work with their hardware. But, to exclude other hardware is keeping them from getting into more homes. Some of the homes may be able to change hardware, but not all.

SD isn't excluding Ceton tuners from working with the software. The Ceton tuners (and some of the SD tuners as well) lack the appropriate hardware to work with the system. While the reasoning behind it doesn't change the practically of it for you and all of your Ceton loving friends (2x InfiniTV4 PCIe's here) it's disingenuous to paint SD as the bad guys for that. It's like getting mad at Apple because the iPhone won't run Android apps.

[GIJOE4LIFE]

Let's be clear... you've backed up your assertion with absolutely nothing but your opinion. So before you get up on your high horse remember that you've brought jack squat in terms of facts to this discussion.

Google it there are rules set forth for displaying information properly. since this is typically done in fields of science/math that will point you in the right direction.

That said, my position is a hypothetical one. I'm saying that it is possible for someone to come up with a more efficient way of displaying channel data than a grid.

Again you dont get it, im not talking about one channel but all channels at once. Providing the same function the current Grid EPG does.

i'm not saying that I have done it, that someone else has done it, that someone else will do it or that it is an inevitability. I'm saying that the possibility exists that a more efficient EPG could be designed, and that there is yet a possibility that SD could be the ones to design it.

i could eat a butterfly and poop rainbows in this same world you are speaking from

I'm just curious how much experience you have with interface design? none I suspect. How much time did you devote to thinking of an alternative for the grid? Five, maybe six minutes tops? I have to say, I'm glad you aren't in charge of any sort of innovations because if you were, I'd probably be "writing" this post on punchcards.

wrote my first gui when i was 14 in '97 to interact with a game.

Wow so now your saying google is telling us we have to use grid epg.
How do you watch 400 channels on a grid at once.
All I can say to the butterfly thing is assuming you are always right, you better get to pooping mr butterfly it looks like rain.

[bobitha]

1)I didn't say that, I said the grid epg is not the best way to display data. I believe SD is trying for something better and want to see what it is. But then again, Of course the grid epg isn't important to me. The multiple clients are, DRM, MPEG-2.

You have been very Anti-ProGridEPG in all your posts. You claim that There is better then back track to saying well lets see if they can do better. You have claimed numerous times that people "not wanting grid epg" were the majority. not that you dont need it but you were speaking for the masses (back track much?)

2)Of course you want the project to succeed, everyone can tell that by your post.

Yes i do for my own personal reasons, not because i care about SD or anybody else, i am a very selfish person and Me and my family are infinitely more important than you or anybody else. Just because im pissed at the direction SD is taking does not mean i dont want it to succeed. Measuring success for me might be different than you. I will not be satisfied with this product without a Grid EPG among other core functions there are 3 main breaking points for this project if they dont hit its a miss.

3)I'm not just opposed, I want something better and am willing to let them try.

Nor am I, Simply put they should have addressed core function, similar to how they made sure the dang thing recorded in the first place. Grid EPG is a core function of ANY DVR. Im not saying dont try to do better but FFS at least give us what works.

4)All of your comments seem to be based on what is only important to you, which I understand but you and a few others always try to turn everything sinister. And because they did not do what you wanted them to do you trash everything they do.

and all of your comments are complacancy toward accepting what you get and preventing people from speaking up to ask for normal function. Its not that anybody is asking for some radacal feature that has never been done before this is again a core feature that should have been here from the start. I dont see how speaking out about this is sinister in any way. Pay me to paing your house blue and i paint it orange because i thought it would be better.... thats the same difference

5)Yes lets use that addage, what if the more features replaced the grid epg and was better.......Just because there is no grid epg doesn't mean
you have to have one. Trashing an entire project for selfish reasons is wrong, its not your project and the project was not promoted as a grid style epg, it promoted as a DVR, and I''m willing to wait to see the end product.

yes i am so simple that i would trash an entire project over one flaw HA. Read what dejavux2 wrote and it sums up enough to be disappointed in silicondust. Grid EPG is a must have for me and MANY MANY OTHERS. hell in dejavux2's case he has 24 households so thats 24 different accounts that say no to this project as it is thats 100% of people who say this wont work as it is.

6)And here we go again twisting because you are always right. How is trying something new complacency, isn't complacency screaming for the same oh same oh.

there is nothing new! the new part is that they didnt add a Grid EPG lol. you are complacent because you are willing to accept whatever they throw in turd and all. Im not saying dont innovate but give the core dvr experience if you are going to call it a dvr at all.

7)Yet you are trying to kill a capitalist project.

lol this project is killing itself. How is it me who is killing it because they thought they knew what was best for us IM KILLING IT?? because SiliconDust is ignoring its customers and silencing their voice IM KILLING IT??? SiliconDust is killing this project NOT ME.

8)You know this because of the DVR software you created and the inside information you have with SD of course, and because anything you attack just can't succeed, you are always right.

Yes because that is the position i would have to be in to have any insight.

[bobitha]

Wow so now your saying google is telling us we have to use grid epg.
How do you watch 400 channels on a grid at once.
All I can say to the butterfly thing is assuming you are always right, you better get to pooping mr butterfly it looks like rain.

Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid? That isnt what i said at all. Far from what i said infact. The butterfly thing is because he is living in a fantasy world Simple i have 400 channels and all i have to do is hit the page up button all the information is right there.

[bobitha]

If I'm not mistaken he said that the grid EPG wasn't important to him and that some of the other guides that SD is including will be better for him. How you could possibly argue against that I have no idea unless you are the same person posting under two different accounts. Unless you are him you can't really say what is subjectively better for him.

Yes you are mistaken. He was speaking for the masses which he had no place to do so. So why not go back a ways and take a read.

"I want them to prove me wrong" seems like a common sentiment from the "we want a grd" crowd, yet at every step these people seem determined to undermine the project now at every opportunity. Call me a skeptic, but I'm not sure I believe all of the "I want it to succeed" talk from the nay-sayers.

Once you have had your voice stripped away from you and your hopes and dreams crushed (bit dramatic) by silicondust you might understand. Its not that i dont want them to succeed but i do feel that other people should be informed before even thinking about getting this current CRAP. I hope they do prove me wrong i prefer windows 10 to windows 7 and if i am going to have dvr having the perks of DRM if/when i want it is all the better.

Where did he ever say that he didn't want that functionality implemented. I do believe you are just making things up now. And do I really need to tell you all the things wrong with the "if it were possible..." comment?

By speaking for the masses insinuating that a Grid EPG was not important so shouldnt have any valuable time wasted on it. Go back and read if you want

I'm over halfway through my life expectancy, but I'm not much older today than I was yesterday. What's your point?

apples....oranges....... this project is no where near half way finished Not even close... yet the timeline is well over half way over... THAT IS THE POINT. this project IF it ever delivers is guaranteed to be delayed.

Yes. That sounds like a guy who genuinely wants them to succeed.

and you sound like a communist who thinks we should just get what we get.

Importance will vary from person to person. Someone who thinks a grid isn't that important has just as much a right to express their opinion as you do.

Why are you trying to ruin this project!!! (at least thats the spin you put on it since i dont favor your position) Nobody wanting a Grid EPG is asking SD to do less. People who say they dont want/need a grid epg gives SD the go ahead to screw us all THAT IS MY PROBLEM.

You just love throwing up that strawman don't you? I haven't seen a single person on here, at SD, or AVS who is opposed to additional features. Just because someone says a feature isn't important to them doesn't mean they are opposed to adding it. And it's pretty clear at this point your understanding of software development is below measurable limits. Very rarely does the first release of software have every possible feature in it. Most of the time the features included initially are a mix of things the designers think will have the most broad appeal, and the things that are easiest to implement (usually both) Accommodating for everyone is a pipe dream.

yes lets have a company who is already delivering below the respected minimum try even less hard to satisfy its customers...

Actually it seems you don't get it. nobody is advocating complacency.

By saying you dont need/want and that the majority feels the same (which is bs) is advocating complacency.. again it gives SD the green light to say SCREW THAT FEATURE!!

See above comment with regards to your knowledge of software development.

Seriously YOU HAVE NO IDEA. You do not know me or my background how can you even begin to make claims about my knowledge about anything. I get you are trying to rile me up Nice try takes a lot more than that.

Since we are spouting random things out i seriously doubt you live in anything other than a cardboard box stealing internet from mcdonalds on an obama phone reading forums. WHY NOT?

[bobitha]

You google it. i'm not doing your work for you.

i dont need to. already know the truth.

Yes, I know what you're talking about. you simply want a a grid because you want a grid. You're convinced a grid is irreplaceable because you've never used anything else.

Its not being convinced a grid/table/spreadsheet is the only thing but i damn sure know that the information provided in it in its entirety for at least 12 hours is a must have. I see no other way of doing so that could even potentially be a better solution or even offer the same function in any regard. TO put it a little bit differently picture the "now showing" now if it was broke down by channel blocks instead of time blocks and it ordered each block by time so block one on channel would be whats on now and block 2 whats on next and block 3 whats on after that.... i would settle for that but it would still be inefficient compared to something with text... pictures are harder to just "skim" the brain doesnt work that way its harder to look for key words in a picture so to speak... its not that a grid is the "only" its just the most efficient.

BTW, last I checked, I've never seen an EPG grid that displays 400 channels of data at once. If yours does, you must have amazing vision.

well all the data is there i simply scroll up or down same thing as reading a pointless forum post just scroll on down past the junk

I can give reasons why eating a butterfly will not result in you pooping a rainbow. so far you've been utterly unable to provide anything meaningful as to why it's impossible to create a better EPG.

if i were living in the same world you are speaking from anything is more than possible what are you talking about. Superman is evil. The joker is a good guy... up is down.

How many grids did it have?

Luckily writing a Grid is actually one of the easiest things to do.... compared to the other crap they have done test grid tables with just static channel icons would be much much easier than a lot of the crap they have done..... BUT you already know that since you know so much about coding right?

[bobitha]

I will not respond to anymore of your ridiculous quotes to me. I will continue being me ( thank god ) you continue being you ( makes me laugh anyway ) You two are not worth my time. If this project were FREE i could understand complacency with it.

[ajhieb]

Nor am I, Simply put they should have addressed core function, similar to how they made sure the dang thing recorded in the first place. Grid EPG is a core function of ANY DVR. Im not saying dont try to do better but FFS at least give us what works.

Really? Is it? As defined by whom? I would consider the ability to record, and playback TV core functionality. FF/RW Would be core functionality. Pausing live TV would be core functionality if a DVR. The ability to schedule recording in advance would be core functionality of a DVR.

A grid guide seems more like core functionality for Live TV viewing.

Do you know what DVR stands for? Specifically what the "R" stands for? What pray tell does looking for the next 3 hours of live TV have to do with recording digital video? (Spolier: NOTHING!)

and all of your comments are complacancy toward accepting what you get and preventing people from speaking up to ask for normal function. Its not that anybody is asking for some radacal feature that has never been done before this is again a core feature that should have been here from the start. I dont see how speaking out about this is sinister in any way. Pay me to paing your house blue and i paint it orange because i thought it would be better.... thats the same difference

Nobody here is trying to prevent civil discourse. But not all of the discourse here has been civil. I see no reason why suggestions shouldn't be welcome here. Constructive criticism as well. But repetitive complaints from the same people over the same old topic aren't helping anything. Personal attacks aimed at SD staff aren't helping anything. Constantly misrepresenting what SD has said isn't helping anything. none of that is constructive.

And a better analogy would be if I agreed to paint your house, a color was never discussed, and you didn't like the color I painted it. Or did SD agree to include a grid guide during the kickstarter that I missed?

yes i am so simple that i would trash an entire project over one flaw HA. Read what dejavux2 wrote and it sums up enough to be disappointed in silicondust. Grid EPG is a must have for me and MANY MANY OTHERS. heck in dejavux2's case he has 24 households so thats 24 different accounts that say no to this project as it is thats 100% of people who say this wont work as it is.

It's 100% of the people that he talked to and I'm sure it was presented in a fair and unbiased fashion. I'm sure he fully explained all of the options without any leading terminology, but regardless it's still anecdotal. I asked my fiend who is using WMC if he would be okay without a grid guide and he said yes. So that's 100% of people who say this will work.

there is nothing new! the new part is that they didnt add a Grid EPG lol. you are complacent because you are willing to accept whatever they throw in turd and all. Im not saying dont innovate but give the core dvr experience if you are going to call it a dvr at all.

Again, you have no idea what is new and what isn't. The project hasn't been released yet. It would be one thing if you had something that was near a final beta that was just getting bugs fixed, but you haven't seen anything that is close to a full featured version of the software yet. You simply cannot say (with any accuracy) that SD isn't doing anything new.

lol this project is killing itself. How is it me who is killing it because they thought they knew what was best for us IM KILLING IT?? because SiliconDust is ignoring its customers and silencing their voice IM KILLING IT??? SiliconDust is killing this project NOT ME.

You certainly aren't helping it. Compare what you and Ed have been squaking about to what dejavux2 wrote. He wrote a well thought out post that addressed the issues that he thought were lacking, tactfully brought up what he considers to be poor customer service by SD. Everything was deliberate, thoughtful and rational. It was based in fact, not emotional backlash. It is basically the exact opposite of everything you and Ed have been posting for the last day, and I'd be willing to wager it carries far more weight with the folks at SD than the dozens of hate posts you've put up. (and not just because he evidently knows more WMC users than you do)

[GIJOE4LIFE]

If I'm not mistaken he said that the grid EPG wasn't important to him and that some of the other guides that SD is including will be better for him. How you could possibly argue against that I have no idea unless you are the same person posting under two different accounts. Unless you are him you can't really say what is subjectively better for him.

Yes you are mistaken. He was speaking for the masses which he had no place to do so. So why not go back a ways and take a read.

"I want them to prove me wrong" seems like a common sentiment from the "we want a grd" crowd, yet at every step these people seem determined to undermine the project now at every opportunity. Call me a skeptic, but I'm not sure I believe all of the "I want it to succeed" talk from the nay-sayers.

Once you have had your voice stripped away from you and your hopes and dreams crushed (bit dramatic) by silicondust you might understand. Its not that i dont want them to succeed but i do feel that other people should be informed before even thinking about getting this current CRAP. I hope they do prove me wrong i prefer windows 10 to windows 7 and if i am going to have dvr having the perks of DRM if/when i want it is all the better.

Where did he ever say that he didn't want that functionality implemented. I do believe you are just making things up now. And do I really need to tell you all the things wrong with the "if it were possible..." comment?

By speaking for the masses insinuating that a Grid EPG was not important so shouldnt have any valuable time wasted on it. Go back and read if you want

I'm over halfway through my life expectancy, but I'm not much older today than I was yesterday. What's your point?

apples....oranges....... this project is no where near half way finished Not even close... yet the timeline is well over half way over... THAT IS THE POINT. this project IF it ever delivers is guaranteed to be delayed.

Yes. That sounds like a guy who genuinely wants them to succeed.

and you sound like a communist who thinks we should just get what we get.

Importance will vary from person to person. Someone who thinks a grid isn't that important has just as much a right to express their opinion as you do.

Why are you trying to ruin this project!!! (at least thats the spin you put on it since i dont favor your position) Nobody wanting a Grid EPG is asking SD to do less. People who say they dont want/need a grid epg gives SD the go ahead to screw us all THAT IS MY PROBLEM.

You just love throwing up that strawman don't you? I haven't seen a single person on here, at SD, or AVS who is opposed to additional features. Just because someone says a feature isn't important to them doesn't mean they are opposed to adding it. And it's pretty clear at this point your understanding of software development is below measurable limits. Very rarely does the first release of software have every possible feature in it. Most of the time the features included initially are a mix of things the designers think will have the most broad appeal, and the things that are easiest to implement (usually both) Accommodating for everyone is a pipe dream.

yes lets have a company who is already delivering below the respected minimum try even less hard to satisfy its customers...

Actually it seems you don't get it. nobody is advocating complacency.

By saying you dont need/want and that the majority feels the same (which is bs) is advocating complacency.. again it gives SD the green light to say SCREW THAT FEATURE!!

See above comment with regards to your knowledge of software development.

Seriously YOU HAVE NO IDEA. You do not know me or my background how can you even begin to make claims about my knowledge about anything. I get you are trying to rile me up Nice try takes a lot more than that.

Since we are spouting random things out i seriously doubt you live in anything other than a cardboard box stealing internet from mcdonalds on an obama phone reading forums. WHY NOT?

Since he is right here let him speak. I don't speak for the masses never said I did, but apparently only you and those who want a grid epg do. You always start any post with we, the vast majority and talk about overwhelming numbers. Then state how its a fact only because you say so. You then make outlandish statements about how your way is the only way. then you'll find as many statements you can twist to meet whatever you say. Your whats termed in my line of work as a blow-fish. You have to swell yourself up by imaginary wrongs done you, when its always about what you want. You say how something okay for someone else but not for you but try to slip in a underhanded ways to show how misguided they are for not having your way of thinking, that way you can make tv style (Dare I say, Grid style tv speeches). It's a poor attempt to be manipulative, anyone who really go's back and read your post can see that you and a couple of others have a system which you believe will lead to what you want, and you twist anything to try to reach that goal. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't want whatever type of guide that is best for them, but this trashing of everything is childish, and like i say the attempts at manipulation is obvious. If your facts and knowledge is so complete why didn't you know a grid style epg was not on the kickstarter? How can you have an open mind about something if you already say before it's finished it's crap? How can you take a topic, grid style epg and turn it into a, I told you there wasn't a grid style epg, when one was never promised. It would be different if you just ask for one. No it can't be like that it has to be reworked into SD sinister plot and how everything they do is done to take away something everyone wants. Really I see why no company before now wanted to tackle this type of software before now. You have to deal with the cable establishment, coding and the inevitable errors the my way or the highway folks. I even seen some posts where you've said it's not for you because it does not have grid epg. Yet every chance you get you trash everything they do and that definitely started when you did not get what you wanted when you wanted it.

[ajhieb]

Yes you are mistaken. He was speaking for the masses which he had no place to do so. So why not go back a ways and take a read.

Yes at one point he did. Then I corrected him, he agreed and the world (except you) moved on.

Once you have had your voice stripped away from you and your hopes and dreams crushed (bit dramatic) by silicondust you might understand. Its not that i dont want them to succeed but i do feel that other people should be informed before even thinking about getting this current CRAP. I hope they do prove me wrong i prefer windows 10 to windows 7 and if i am going to have dvr having the perks of DRM if/when i want it is all the better.

That's analogous to saying "I hope your stupid kid get's an A." Calling it a backhanded endorsement doesn't even really begin to describe the duplicitous nature of what you just wrote.

By speaking for the masses insinuating that a Grid EPG was not important so shouldnt have any valuable time wasted on it. Go back and read if you want

He said it wasn't important to him. I didn't see anything that said he didn't want SD working on it. I saw a post that was dripping with the most obvious sarcasm I've ever encountered on the internet that suggested the EPG had made people weak that you replied to saying something about wasting time, but never him. Like I said, now you're just making things up.

apples....oranges....... this project is no where near half way finished Not even close... yet the timeline is well over half way over... THAT IS THE POINT. this project IF it ever delivers is guaranteed to be delayed.

You have no idea where the project is. You know where the preview build is, but that isn't the entirety of the project. There you go pretending to know about things which you clearly do not know.

and you sound like a communist who thinks we should just get what we get.

Does that count as a Godwin? .5 Godwin? As stated numerous times, I'm in favor of getting a grid style EPG. I've stated as such several times, on several forums. I also know that once I made my opinion known, throwing a public temper tantrum wasn't going to help my wishes any. I can acknowledge the very limited amount of control I have in this. You and a few others, clearly haven't come to terms with the fact that you you aren't the ones in charge.

Why are you trying to ruin this project!!! (at least thats the spin you put on it since i dont favor your position) Nobody wanting a Grid EPG is asking SD to do less. People who say they dont want/need a grid epg gives SD the go ahead to screw us all THAT IS MY PROBLEM.

That would be a valid concern if it weren't completely imaginary.

Yes lets have a company who is already delivering below the respected minimum try even less hard to satisfy its customers...

They seem to be on track to satisfy me.

By saying you dont need/want and that the majority feels the same (which is bs) is advocating complacency.. again it gives SD the green light to say SCREW THAT FEATURE!!

I've never said that I don't want a grid. I've acknowledged I don't need a grid. Since I don't need a grid I didn't feel the compulsion to lie about it. I've made my wishes known that protected content is the highest priority for me (note: I didn't care in the least when you said it wasn't important to you) a grid guide would be nice, and the ability to search for shows is also important. Beyond that I really don't care. I use my DVR to record programs to watch later. The only live TV I watch is sports and I know when and what channel long before the guide does. I don't channel surf, and when I need a few hours of mindless entertainment I use my media library. Channel surfing simply isn't a high priority for me. Other people have different priorities and they are certainly free to express their opinions as well.

Seriously YOU HAVE NO IDEA. You do not know me or my background how can you even begin to make claims about my knowledge about anything.

Perhaps you have tons of experience with software development and you just suck at it. I guess that would explain your total lack of understanding too.


Edit: tl;dr You're not a victim. Stop acting like it.

[Ed]

Yes i do for my own personal reasons, not because i care about SD or anybody else, i am a very selfish person and Me and my family are infinitely more important than you or anybody else. Just because im peeved at the direction SD is taking does not mean i dont want it to succeed. Measuring success for me might be different than you. I will not be satisfied with this product without a Grid EPG among other core functions there are 3 main breaking points for this project if they dont hit its a miss.

This is what a lot of these people taking up the opposition either fail to recognize, or decide to ignore (or are just trolling and don't care).

They continuously say everyone who is peeved with this entire thing and way it has been handled and communicated about from the get-go and so forth, and just unhappy with no grid epg and have the gall to express their displeasure - no matter how severe or slight, are trying to sabotage or sink this thing or SD. Why? What do I gain from that?

The reason I'm (and all these others) are so critical - is because we want it to succeed. We want it to succeed well. We want it to succeed beyond expectations. Why? So that it secures it's place in the market, and ensures we - for very selfish reasons - are able to have this thing stick around and continue on using it for a long time. The more popular it is, the longer it will, as a product, be around for/make sense for SD to keep around. And the more popular it is = more money that pours in = SD can develop it further and better or pocket or spend on whatever else. Again, we want it to succeed so that we can selfishly use it for a long time. And that is in SD's bests interests. We are literally the best ally they have in this. Not the people telling them to stay the course and thinking they few brave souls can shout the masses down. They are fanbois and apologists (or trolls) who will yes, yes, yes SD on this product all the way into its own grave. That they all built. All at SD's expense. They do you (SD) no favors.

But, we realize you do not get success without mass appeal. And you do not get mass appeal with a redundant and complicated interface. Complicated people can do fine with a complicated interface. Simple people can not do fine with a complicated interface. Simple people can use a simple interface. Complicated people can also use a simple interface. And that right there is the kicker. To gain mass appeal, you need an interface the masses can use. And the masses all know the grid EPG. It is in every. single. one. of. their. DVRs. When friends come over your house, or your in-laws, or a babysitter - they all intuitively know how to use a grid epg. You do not need to show them. They know the arrows are used to go up/down/left/right on the guide and enter is ok. They know if they scroll up or down they are moving in between individual channels. They know if they move left or right they are moving forward or backwards in time on that channel. They. know. how. to. use. it.

Now, what happens with the SD DVR's current and future planned interface (if it stays the course)? One of those people come over, OK, time for class on how to use this DVR which has a UI and UX you have never seen before; so we are literally starting from square one. We have to explain how it doesn't show channels but images of shows. If you like to go to a favorite channel to see what's on, tough. If you like to channel guide surf, tough. We also have to explain how if you want to watch something on now you go to this one particular guide. If you want to watch something almost on now go to this other individual guide. If you want to see what's coming on even later go to this yet other individual guide. Now those other/extra/additional/new live and almost live TV features mentioned, we still don't know if they are in addition to the three guides we already have, or if they will replace the now and almost on now guides. So if the former, skip these past 2 sentences, if not, MORE GUIDES TO TEACH OR THAT THEY MIGHT STUMBLE THEIR WAY INTO AND NOT KNOW WHAT"S GOING ON!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! I'm gonna assume the worst, but not surprising at this point, probability their idea to fix sports is yet another guide; a sports guide. So if you want to watch sports go here to this, yes, you guessed it, also individual and separate guide. Oh, and if you want to see movies do this. Oh and I hope I didn't hide any shows you might have wanted to watch! Basically, at best - we have to teach them how to juggle and go back and forth between 3 (possibly 5 or 6) individual guides as we have now, and explain how to use them and explain how and why they don't look anything like every other guide on every other DVR they've ever seen at their house or anyone else's house. At worst? Throughout the beta 53 (yes, a sarcastically pulled out of my ass number) different use cases are discovered and SD just keeps creating different guides for each of them and we now have and have to explain teach 53 different guides to someone. Not to mention juggle these all ourselves. And this, while sarcastic, would not be surprising at this point if it came to pass; based on what we have so far seen and how this has so far been handled.

SD is touting how easy this can be to set up for people. An HDHR and NAS on your network is all you need! Why would you not want the easiest software guide interface you can achieve? The one you can then advertise as being so simple everyone can - and already knows - how to use? What one would that be? The one that consolidates all existing, and whatever addition guides we have yet to see, into one? The one already known to everyone cause they already use it? The one not only usable by the techies? The one that doesn't have to be taught to the normies? NO, IT IS THE SD PICTURE GUIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol, you thought I was gonna say a grid EPG up there, didn't you? Silly, what reason would I have..............to..........................say..................... Crap, I should have said grid EPG. Can I get a do over?

SD, the ship hasn't even left port, and everyone on board is already up to their ankles in water. You stand in complete silence with your hands on the ship's wheel and your captain's hat on, eyes forward, not even blinking; with a completely blank expression on your face. We can not tell if you are blind and deaf, oblivious to, or just ignoring the majority of passengers shouting in your ear that the ship is sinking and you have to do something quickly. Some people, with voices sore from yelling, begin to wonder if that even is the captain, or merely a very life like statue of him. In the back of the ship, a few passengers huddled together say "Well I say, I have no clue what all this riff-raff is about, I rather enjoy this foot bath they have provided for us in every single area of the ship! Look, they are even raising the sea up for us so we can get a better look! Splendid, just splendid! ONWARD CAPTAIN, ONTO VICTORY!" All the while, the ship continues to sink.














Please captain, do something. The ship is sinking.

[bobitha]

The best part? It requires practically zero configuration. With HDHomeRun DVR combined with current HDHomeRun products sold today, you will soon have the freedom to watch and record Live TV. Your way. On your terms.

My way involves a Grid EPG for my whole home DVR experience, without this SiliconDust you are delivering me nothing more than a high end VCR. Todays DVR's do so much more than just Record (R of the DVR) If i choose your product it had better at least do everything your competition, even the free programs, can do.


My way i can pause and rewind live tv.

My way i can push a button and go to the last show i was watching.

My way doesnt involve beta testing Kodi as well.

My way (tied to above) doesnt crash every day at least once a day on at least one device.

My way i can delete recordings and not have them record again.

My way i dont need to stay connected to the internet 24/7 to have a guide and recordings function properly.

My way isnt being ignored by those who want my money/referals.

[bobitha]

SD, the ship hasn't even left port, and everyone on board is already up to their ankles in water. You stand in complete silence with your hands on the ship's wheel and your captain's hat on, eyes forward, not even blinking; with a completely blank expression on your face. We can not tell if you are blind and deaf, oblivious to, or just ignoring the majority of passengers shouting in your ear that the ship is sinking and you have to do something quickly. Some people, with voices sore from yelling, begin to wonder if that even is the captain, or merely a very life like statue of him. In the back of the ship, a few passengers huddled together say "Well I say, I have no clue what all this riff-raff is about, I rather enjoy this foot bath they have provided for us in every single area of the ship! Look, they are even raising the sea up for us so we can get a better look! Splendid, just splendid! ONWARD CAPTAIN, ONTO VICTORY!" All the while, the ship continues to sink.














Please captain, do something. The ship is sinking.

I laugh because this is SOOO true. the entire post was accurate. These people who are blind to see the ship is sinking just dont get that it is sinking regardless of what they call it.

[GIJOE4LIFE]

Yes i do for my own personal reasons, not because i care about SD or anybody else, i am a very selfish person and Me and my family are infinitely more important than you or anybody else. Just because im peeved at the direction SD is taking does not mean i dont want it to succeed. Measuring success for me might be different than you. I will not be satisfied with this product without a Grid EPG among other core functions there are 3 main breaking points for this project if they dont hit its a miss.

This is what a lot of these people taking the opposition either fail to recognize, or decide to ignore (or are just trolling and don't care).

They continuously say everyone who is peeved with this entire thing and way it has been handled and communicated about from the get-go and so forth, and just unhappy with no grid epg and have the gall to express their displeasure - no matter how severe or slight, are trying to sabotage or sink this thing or SD. Why? What do I gain from that?

The reason I'm (and all these others) are so critical - is because we want it to succeed. We want it to succeed well. We want it to succeed beyond expectations. Why? So that it secures it's place in the market, and ensures we - for very selfish reasons - are able to have this thing stick around and continue on using it for a long time. The more popular it is, the longer it will, as a product, be around for/make sense for SD to keep around. And the more popular it is = more money that pours in = SD can develop it further and better and pocket or spend whatever else. Again, we want it to succeed so that we can selfishly use it for a long time. And that is in SD's bests interests. We are literally the best ally they have in this. Not the people telling them to stay the course and thinking they few brave souls shout the masses down. They are fanbois and apologists (or trolls) who will yes, yes, yes SD on this product all the way into its own grave. That they all built. All at SD's expense. They do you (SD) no favors.

But, we realize you do not get mass appeal with a redundant and complicated interface. Complicated people can do fine with a complicated interface. Simple people can not do fine with a complicated interface. Simple people can use a simple interface. Complicated people can also use a simple interface. And that right there is the kicker. To gain mass appeal, you need an interface the masses can use. And the masses all know the grid EPG. It is in every. single. one. of. their. DVRs. When friends come over your house, or your in-laws, or a babysitter - they all intuitively know how to use a grid epg. You do not need to show them. They know the arrows are used to go up/down/left/right on the guide and enter is ok. They know if they scroll up or down they are moving in between individual channels. They know if they move left or right they are moving forward or backwards in time on that channel. They. know. how. to. use. it.

Now, what happens with the SD DVR's current and future planned interface (if it stays the course)? One of those people come over, OK time for class on how to use this DVR which as a UI and UX you have never seen before so we are literally starting from square one. We have to explain how it doesn't show channels but images of shows. If you like to go to a favorite channel to see what's on, tough. If you like to channel guide surf, tough. We also have to explain how if you want to watch something on now you go to this one particular guide. If you want to watch something almost on now go to this other individual guide. If you want to see what's coming on ever later go to this yet other individual guide. Now those other/extra/additional/new live and almost live TV features mentioned, we still don't know if they are in addition to the three guides we already have, or if they will replace the now and almost on no guides. So if the former, skip these past 2 sentences, if not, MORE GUIDES TO TEACH OR THAT THEY MIGHT STUMBLE THEIR WAY INTO AND NOT KNOW WHAT"S GOING ON!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! I'm gonna assume the worse, but not surprising at this point, their idea to fix sports is yet another guide; a sports guide. So if you want to watch sports go here to this, yes, you guessed it, also individual and separate guide. Oh, and if you want to see movies do this. Oh and I hope I didn't hide any shows you might have wanted to watch! Basically, at best - we have to teach them how to juggle and go back and forth between 3 (possibly 5 or 6) individual guides as we have now, and explain how to use them and explain how and why they don't look anything like every other guide on every other DVR they've ever seen at their house or anyone else's house. At worst? Throughout the beta 53 (yes, a sarcastically pulled out of my butt number) different use cases are discovered and SD just keeps creating different guides for each of them and we now have and have to explain teach 53 different guides to someone. Not to mention juggle these all ourselves. And this, while sarcastic, would not be surprising at this point if it came to pass; based on what we have so far seen and how this has so far been handled.

SD is touting how easy this can be to set up for people. An HDHR and NAS on your network is all you need! Why would you not want the easiest software guide interface you can achieve? The one you can then advertise as being so simple everyone can - and already knows - how to use? What one would that be? The one already known to everyone cause they already use it? The one not only usable by the techies? The one that doesn't have to be taught to the normies? NO, IT IS THE SD PICTURE GUIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol, you thought I was gonna say a grid EPG up there, didn't you? Silly, what reason would I have..............to..........................say..................... Crap, I should have said grid EPG. Can I get a do over?

SD, the ship hasn't even left port, and everyone on board is already up to their ankles in water. You stand in complete silence with your hands on the ship's wheel and your captain's hat on, eyes forward, not even blinking, with a completely blank expression on your face. We can not tell if you are blind and deaf, oblivious to, or just ignoring the majority of passengers shouting in your ear that the ship is sinking and you have to do something quickly. In the back of the ship, a few passengers huddled together say "Well I say, I have no clue what all this riff-raff is about, I rather enjoy this foot bath they have provided for us in every single area of the ship! Look, they are even raising the sea up for us so we can get a better look! Splendid, just splendid! ONWARD CAPTAIN, ONTO VICTORY!"














Please captain, do something. The ship is sinking.

I won't speak for these people but I will speak for myself, and what I speak is my opinion. I'm not misguided or lost. Throughout this post demonstrates everything I've said. About the only honest thing in it is your declaration that you won't be satisfied unless a grid style epg is in the core function. The rest are underhanded pokes and twists attempts to manipulate, who said they love the way everything been handled. I wonder whose huddled at the back of the ship. Do they by chance have a grid style epg, is that by chance where all the knowledge is located. I began not really caring about a grid epg, my priority is and will be for some time will be function, DRM and the clients. The style of epg is not that important only being able to do what I want. But when you say vast majority how many people are sitting at your keyboard with you?

[GIJOE4LIFE]

The best part? It requires practically zero configuration. With HDHomeRun DVR combined with current HDHomeRun products sold today, you will soon have the freedom to watch and record Live TV. Your way. On your terms.

My way involves a Grid EPG for my whole home DVR experience, without this SiliconDust you are delivering me nothing more than a high end VCR. Todays DVR's do so much more than just Record (R of the DVR) If i choose your product it had better at least do everything your competition, even the free programs, can do.


My way i can pause and rewind live tv.

My way i can push a button and go to the last show i was watching.

My way doesnt involve beta testing Kodi as well.

My way (tied to above) doesnt crash every day at least once a day on at least one device.

My way i can delete recordings and not have them record again.

My way i dont need to stay connected to the internet 24/7 to have a guide and recordings function properly.

My way isnt being ignored by those who want my money/referals.

Finally, now how many of those things are in the final product. If a few of them are I'll join in. Except the grid style epg. What of these things are in the final product? I'll also say in my opinion SD has not communicated enough.

[GIJOE4LIFE]

Now to DVR kickstarter, nothing against those who like it but I am tired of kodi, hoping we'll see another client to test soon. For drm it's useless anyway. There have been improvements in the recording engine and the one kodi client I,m using did update itself recently. Progress is being made, not fast enough for some but progress is being made. Hoping the next build post soon.

[blauter78]

Now to DVR kickstarter, nothing against those who like it but I am tired of kodi, hoping we'll see another client to test soon. For drm it's useless anyway. There have been improvements in the recording engine and the one kodi client I,m using did update itself recently. Progress is being made, not fast enough for some but progress is being made. Hoping the next build post soon.

Agreed. The reason I backed this project was to do away with Kodi. I want an android TV box at every TV in my house that can quickly go between live TV/DVR, Netflix, Hulu, local media (currently through Emby), etc. I don't want to launch kodi just to watch tv. If I wanted that, I would just use one of the many existing DVR backends that are miles ahead of this.

[Embiggens]

/PICTUREGUIDE

[Beerman]

Not sure how clear it is to everyone but you don't need a NAS to run HD DVR. I have one and use it but not because of SD.
There are some on the SD forums that think that's the only way to run it but that's not the case.