Silicondust DVR - protected content works w/RECORDED TV yet?

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john321

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Silicondust DVR - protected content works w/RECORDED TV yet?

#1

Post by john321 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:45 am

BACKGROUND:

I'm currently using Windows 7 Media Center. It works fine. It's still the best DVR I've ever used, but my WMC7 PC has been getting a little laggy lately. It's running on fairly modern hardware that was refreshed in 2013 or 2014. Please don't go off on a tangent about hardware and performance.

CURRENT SITUATION:

WMC7 is getting very long in the tooth. It will eventually need to be replaced. A few years ago, the best hope seemed to be the Silicondust DVR.

I donated to the Silicondust DVR a long, long, long time ago. I still haven't tried using the DVR part of it. The client software looks OK. Some people complain about the lack of a grid-guide. I can live with that. I won't go into the details about that for the sake of brevity.

The last update on the SD DVR kickstarter site is from Feb 2017. It says that they got protected content working for LIVE TV. The last update I got directly from
them was a few days before they posted that on kickstarter. Their answer to my questions was less than what I was hoping for.

I just opened a new ticket with them, asking if they ever got protected content working for RECORDED TV. No answer yet.

HERE IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU (ONLY IF YOU KNOW):

1) First, and most importantly: Does protected content work for **RECORDED** TV on the SD DVR yet???

2) Second, and also important: How does the SD DVR compare to Windows Media Center on Windows 7?

(Please don't offer a critique of the design of the Guide vs a "grid guide". Instead, I am interested in the differences between the scheduling capabilities [e.g. the ability to exclude repeat episodes, the accuracy of the Guide info when schedules change due to sports events, and the ability to handle back-to-back episodes with pre/post padding without using more than one tuner.]

I would also like to hear about things like:
  • usability of the menus
  • how well an IR remote control works with the SD DVR/playback software, especially the eHome remote.
)

MOSTLY though... does this software allow ***RECORDING*** ___PROTECTED___ ####CABLE TV#### !!!!CONTENT!!!! ????

Silicondust keeps ***AVOIDING*** this question.

Without this feature, their software is === USELESS ===.

ADDITIONAL INFO:

I'm willing to build/buy whatever hardware is necessary (according to SiliconDust) for the server and clients... and Win10 is fine if that's what it takes. Please don't turn this thread into a discussion about hardware and/or Win10. The only things I care about are my two questions above.

Thanks.

adam1991

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#2

Post by adam1991 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:35 am

john321 wrote:but my WMC7 PC has been getting a little laggy lately. It's running on fairly modern hardware that was refreshed in 2013 or 2014. Please don't go off on a tangent about hardware and performance.
first off: dude, chill out. Really. If you think people coming here to discuss things wastes your time, if you want to demand in a lengthy and preachy post that the world accommodate your exact requirements but then post a vague question ("how does it compare to WMC?"), you need to re-think things.

Secondly, Windows does that. It gets laggy over time. Always has, always will. And the answer always is, when it reaches your level of annoyance, reload things and move on.

A freshly loaded Win7 machine will behave today the same way it did when it was first loaded back in 2013, all on the same hardware.

And thirdly, it took me about ten seconds to find the answer to what you express is your most important question.

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#3

Post by jec6613 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:02 pm

adam1991 wrote:
john321 wrote:but my WMC7 PC has been getting a little laggy lately. It's running on fairly modern hardware that was refreshed in 2013 or 2014. Please don't go off on a tangent about hardware and performance.
Secondly, Windows does that. It gets laggy over time. Always has, always will. And the answer always is, when it reaches your level of annoyance, reload things and move on.

A freshly loaded Win7 machine will behave today the same way it did when it was first loaded back in 2013, all on the same hardware.
Common misconception, but no, Windows doesn't slow down over time. People usually load up a pile of applications over time, and their expectations of what it should behave like go up as they use newer hardware in other devices. I can assure you that from the day I bring a system online to the day I take it offline, if maintained properly, performs exactly the same, even 5-10 years later ... barring hardware failure or similar (the last 5% of an SSD's life for instance it has abysmal performance).

The hardware in my MCPC is from about 2013/2014 vintage and has no trouble keeping up with Windows 8.1 and performs like the day it was put in. All of my computers haven't had an OS reload in years, and run like they're new ... but my job is literally to maintain Windows systems. Usually the servers, but occasionally the desktop clients as well, and the same principals apply to both.

adam1991

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#4

Post by adam1991 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:34 pm

jec6613 wrote:Common misconception, but no, Windows doesn't slow down over time. People usually load up a pile of applications over time, and their expectations of what it should behave like go up as they use newer hardware in other devices.
Which is what I was saying, but I was specifically using layman's terms.

Load it up fresh and be surprised all over again at how well it runs.

I can assure you that from the day I bring a system online to the day I take it offline, if maintained properly, performs exactly the same, even 5-10 years later
Laymen don't "maintain properly". Consumer machines are not in your expensive, professional environment. Also, what you say assumes that you do nothing more to it once you bring it online and it starts performing its defined tasks. And as you point out, that doesn't happen in the consumer world.

You are both 100% correct and 100% incorrect at the same time. I stand by what I said, because as a practical and real world matter, it's 100% true.

but my job is literally to maintain Windows systems
Like I said.

mskenny

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#5

Post by mskenny » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:29 am

I never paid for the recorder from SiliconDust so I can't tell you whether or not you can record protected channels. I can tell you that using the HD HomeRun app on Windows 10, I can watch protected channels from any computer on my local subnet that has the app installed. One might infer that the properly configured recording software could then record protected channels but I have no way to find that out.

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#6

Post by Space » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:49 am

mskenny wrote:I never paid for the recorder from SiliconDust so I can't tell you whether or not you can record protected channels. I can tell you that using the HD HomeRun app on Windows 10, I can watch protected channels from any computer on my local subnet that has the app installed. One might infer that the properly configured recording software could then record protected channels but I have no way to find that out.
You would think so, huh?

But no, they do not support recording (yet?).

I think it is a political issue rather than a straight technical one.

The content people don't want you to be able to record copyrighted programming. The law says that recording of copyrighted programming for your own personal use is fine. Content people say, OK, we have to allow that, but you have to develop a mechanism so that only the person recording the show can watch the show, no sharing.

So now it becomes a technical issue of coming up with a method of doing this that satisfies everyone, which is probably the hard part.

Microsoft was able to do it with their Playready technology. But they are a huge company with some power and were perhaps willing to deal with any lawsuits (or were able to negotiate due to their size/power).

Silicon Dust is small, and doesn't have much power. But you have to admire them for trying. I just hope it doesn't kill them.

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#7

Post by adam1991 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:11 am

mskenny wrote:I never paid for the recorder from SiliconDust so I can't tell you whether or not you can record protected channels. I can tell you that using the HD HomeRun app on Windows 10, I can watch protected channels from any computer on my local subnet that has the app installed. One might infer that the properly configured recording software could then record protected channels but I have no way to find that out.
Sure you do. Manufacturer's web site.

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#8

Post by mskenny » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:59 am

Indeed you are correct, thanks for pointing that out. It does require a subscription and since I already have WMC and Emby running here, I don't see the point. The website clearly says "Record and Playback of DRM protected content coming soon." I believe it has read "soon" for quite some time now.

adam1991

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#9

Post by adam1991 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:11 am

Yes, that feature has been "coming soon" for quite some time now. They've promised it since day 1, and used that as a level for the initial crowdfunding--but have yet to follow through. I think many crowdfunders have a bitter taste in their mouths as a result.

Regardless, as you point out, the entire world knows that it does not support DRM recordings. This is no secret, and has never been a secret. It requires no secret handshake to discover. Never has.

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#10

Post by adam1991 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:15 am

john321 wrote:MOSTLY though... does this software allow ***RECORDING*** ___PROTECTED___ ####CABLE TV#### !!!!CONTENT!!!! ????

Silicondust keeps ***AVOIDING*** this question.
No, they don't.

And they never have. Not since day 1 of announcing their DVR.

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#11

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:59 am

And... you all have done exactly what I asked you NOT to do!

@adam1991: I have been using WMC longer than you have, even though my current username on this site might suggest otherwise. I remember when you joined this site. Also, I've been administering Windows systems since Windows 1.0. Based on your username, you probably weren't even born yet when Windows 1.0 was released. I've forgotten more about Windows than you probably know. Please don't lecture me.

@jec6613: I don't install ANYTHING on this PC. It is my dedicated WMC machine. I don't even allow Windows Update to run on this PC.

For the rest of you, I received confirmation from Silicondust that their DVR software still cannot record copy-protected shows!

john321

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#12

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:11 am

After all of the time that Silicondust has had to develop their product, I am ANGRY that it STILL doesn't support copy-protected RECORDING.
Last edited by john321 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

john321

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#13

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:20 am

I can watch LIVE copy-protected shows using the Silicondust VIEW client... But what good does that do for me??? I want to RECORD shows, and watch them LATER! Isn't that the whole point of having a DVR???

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#14

Post by RyC » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:25 am

Lol for all of your "experience", you still needed to make a patronizing post asking a question that I found the answer to in 5 seconds of Googling. I'll even answer #2: WMC is superior. That's all ya need to know.

john321

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#15

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:26 am

adam1991 wrote:
john321 wrote:MOSTLY though... does this software allow ***RECORDING*** ___PROTECTED___ ####CABLE TV#### !!!!CONTENT!!!! ????

Silicondust keeps ***AVOIDING*** this question.
No, they don't.

And they never have. Not since day 1 of announcing their DVR.
What good is a "DVR" that advertises that it can view copy-protected content if it doesn't allow me to RECORD said content?

john321

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#16

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:36 am

RyC wrote:Lol for all of your "experience", you still needed to make a patronizing post asking a question that I found the answer to in 5 seconds of Googling. I'll even answer #2: WMC is superior. That's all ya need to know.
I searched extensively and found lots of fluff. There were "answers" stating that the Silicondust DVR supported protected "Live" TV. But none that explicitly stated that Silicondust's software could not RECORD copy-protected TV.

I was looking for a definitive answer here. Nothing that I found told me that Silicondust's solution could not RECORD copy-protected TV>

After asking Silicondust directly, I finally received that answer. Their software is capable of displaying copy-protected LIVE TV, but it is NOT capable of RECORDING it.

For me, their software is useless until it can RECORD copy-protected TV.

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#17

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:41 am

RyC wrote:I'll even answer #2: WMC is superior.
(I hope) the Silicondust DVR is the future. It isn't very good right now, but I am trying to push Silicondust to make it better.

WMC is dead. Do you want better software from the only player in this market, or do you want to keep camping on WMC... which will never change or get better?

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#18

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:01 am

BTW, RyC, I remember when you joined too. In fact, I helped you with your questions when you first got into this WMC thing. All in my former life.

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#19

Post by Space » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:26 am

john321 wrote:
adam1991 wrote:
john321 wrote:MOSTLY though... does this software allow ***RECORDING*** ___PROTECTED___ ####CABLE TV#### !!!!CONTENT!!!! ????

Silicondust keeps ***AVOIDING*** this question.
No, they don't.

And they never have. Not since day 1 of announcing their DVR.
What good is a "DVR" that advertises that it can view copy-protected content if it doesn't allow me to RECORD said content?
It can replace a cable box so you don't have a monthly fee?

Most non-cable company provided DVRs can not record copy-protected content. The only ones I know of that can are TiVo and WMC.

Not everyone needs a DVR that can record copy-protected content (for instance those that record from OTA).

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#20

Post by john321 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:39 am

Space wrote:It can replace a cable box so you don't have a monthly fee?

Most non-cable company provided DVRs can not record copy-protected content. The only ones I know of that can are TiVo and WMC.

Not everyone needs a DVR that can record copy-protected content (for instance those that record from OTA).
Well, unfortunately, I am on Comcast... and I need to be able to record copy-protected content. WMC is working well for me, but WMC will not continue to work forever. The Silicondust so-called "DVR" was supposed to be able to record copy-protected content... but it cannot do that right now. I am very disappointed in Silicondust.

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