<sigh> Tivo, here I come?

[Space]

Those aren't just guys, they're Larry, his brother Darryl, and his other brother Darryl!

[adam1991]

I have to agree, SD has gone down a rabbit hole with this DVR thing. I mean, MythTV works; how hard could DVR itself be?

I think they got focused on working on NAS and on DRM. If they had started with "let's just make something work OTA", a very simple model, then they could have expanded on that and eventually gotten to DRM--or not.

I think NAS was a great concept, but maybe even that was a rabbit hole. Certainly doing something on Windows, OTA and/or clear QAM, would have had huge bang for the buck and would have gotten them plenty of street cred.

Give me a DVR on Windows (that works with comskip), plus a Roku channel. I'd be happy.

[mcewinter]

Give me a DVR on Windows (that works with comskip), plus a Roku channel. I'd be happy.

Why is everybody so bent on avoiding Media Center? It works with comskip. Windows 7 is by far the most robust media center software. Kodi makes for a reasonable extender but not available on Roku.

As celebrated as Roku is, they have no interest in offering a live TV avenue.

[STC]

Personally I'm ultimately looking for more shiny.

[mdavej]

As celebrated as Roku is, they have no interest in offering a live TV avenue.

Actually I get live TV and a cloud based DVR on my Roku via PS Vue. Works great and has 95% the content of your average cable package for a fraction of the price. However, it does work better on Fire TV.

[Scallica]

As celebrated as Roku is, they have no interest in offering a live TV avenue.

Actually I get live TV and a cloud based DVR on my Roku via PS Vue. Works great and has 95% the content of your average cable package for a fraction of the price. However, it does work better on Fire TV.

How do you like PS Vue?

[mcewinter]

Personally I'm ultimately looking for more shiny.

I love my Shield and I'm going the way of Silicondust. ...both are only getting better.

Meanwhile it's MC for wifey and kiddo until SD comes around.

[bob_p]

Trying to support multiple platforms can be hard - each operating system and class of devices has a new set of problems - and trying to implement as a Windows Store app adds another set of challenges.

Since SD needs to sell new tuners, it makes sense they would focus on these different platforms first and not on a WMC replacement. WMC users already own tuners, and WMC still works (though Comcast may break our soon with H.264).

If SD had focused first on providing a WMC replacement - on Windows, with one "extender" client - and DRM, and first delivered it as a "legacy" app (not Windows Store), they probably would have had this working last year.

And, SD still hasn't provided any roadmap on where they plan to take their DVR product - so we don't know if they ever intend to provide something comparable to WMC or that is competitive to TiVo or even cable/satellite DVRs (Comcast's X1 DVR appears to be a better option than SD's DVR).

[mcewinter]

And, SD still hasn't provided any roadmap on where they plan to take their DVR product - so we don't know if they ever intend to provide something comparable to WMC or that is competitive to TiVo or even cable/satellite DVRs (Comcast's X1 DVR appears to be a better option than SD's DVR).

I think it's obvious that SDs solution doesn't/isn't going to compare to Windows Media Center. A lot of the advantage of adopting the SDDVR is what platform you decide to use it on. Also, it's simply a DVR as opposed to a Media Center, so there's that.

Tivo charges a premium for the hardware and guide data. Tivo offers streaming apps integrated quite well into their system; that requires revenue to design and support those features. Where does that money come from? Probably their expensive monthly figure. Point being, you're paying for it. And who knows what the future holds for them now that Rovi has acquired them.

I already own Windows Media Center. It cost me 60 bucks ($30 annually (potentially)) to hop on Silicondust's platform. If it turns out that it doesn't suit me then I'll be out the price of the annual investment and I can repurpose the equipment. Until then, the landscape as we know is still changing drastically.

The Comcast DVR comes at an unreasonable price as well.

At the end of the day, I can watch and record TV and enjoy a suite of streaming apps on one interface.

[mdavej]

As celebrated as Roku is, they have no interest in offering a live TV avenue.

Actually I get live TV and a cloud based DVR on my Roku via PS Vue. Works great and has 95% the content of your average cable package for a fraction of the price. However, it does work better on Fire TV.

How do you like PS Vue?

I got it for my parents and they like it except for the monthly login (takes my 10 seconds to do on a phone, but takes them 5 minutes to do on-screen). Picture is good, and features (guide, on demand, search, trickplay) all work well. Made cord cutting a whole lot more tolerable.

[makryger]

For those that have decided to go the TiVO route - how have you decided to handle your movie libraries (rips, archived recordings, etc)?

I've used MyMovies to maintain my library of VOB rips, MKV rips of Blu-Rays, and edited wtv files for WMC clients, and exposed the library (except the VOBs) to other clients via Plex. Was initially excited that the Roamio Pro had a Plex client, until I found info that the Plex client on the Roamio couldn't do 1080p, or high bitrate (it transcodes to 720p 4 Mb/s). So sounded like you still need a Roku or other box to handle the movie libraries.

I am currently using PLEX through a Roku stick. It means I've had to convert my DVDs over to other formats, but I wanted to do this anyways, as I decided the extra file size for some of these discs was not worth it. I tried playing the videos through the various different other piece of hardware I own, such as through the TV itself or through the TiVo, but none seemed to reliably produce the Dolby Digital 5.1 audio, like the Roku does. I also like that there are discreet IP signals you can send to the Roku to open up any app on the Roku, so it plays nicely with my IP ipad remote.

[bob_p]

I think it's obvious that SDs solution doesn't/isn't going to compare to Windows Media Center. A lot of the advantage of adopting the SDDVR is what platform you decide to use it on. Also, it's simply a DVR as opposed to a Media Center, so there's that.

Tivo charges a premium for the hardware and guide data. Tivo offers streaming apps integrated quite well into their system; that requires revenue to design and support those features. Where does that money come from? Probably their expensive monthly figure. Point being, you're paying for it. And who knows what the future holds for them now that Rovi has acquired them.

I already own Windows Media Center. It cost me 60 bucks ($30 annually (potentially)) to hop on Silicondust's platform. If it turns out that it doesn't suit me then I'll be out the price of the annual investment and I can repurpose the equipment. Until then, the landscape as we know is still changing drastically.

The Comcast DVR comes at an unreasonable price as well.

Because we've used WMC for so long, we've absorbed the high cost of purchasing the PC, multiple cablecard tuners and multiple Xbox 360s, and because Microsoft hasn't charged us anything for WMC or the program guide service, our only cost has been for cablecards (which Comcast is now charging us $100 per card per year). So the cost of continuing to use WMC today is pretty low - though the initial cost was much, much higher than purchasing a TiVo and several Minis today.

I've compared the 3 year and 5 year prices of deploying SD's DVR (assuming functionality was competitive to WMC, TiVo or X1 DVR), TiVo (assuming a 6 tuner Bolt) and Comcast's X1. Because we would likely have to buy new hardware for the SD DVR, except for our existing SD tuners - it turns out the 3 year cost to replace our WMC and 6 Xbox 360's is about the same for SD's DVR, Comcast's X1 DVR, and TiVo.

Over a 5 year period, because we would be renting the STB hardware from Comcast (the DVR is free, part of our bundle), Comcast is more expensive. While the SD DVR and TiVo options come out about the same.

Because Comcast is charging us $100 per year for the cablecards, and if TiVo has a 6 tuner Bolt, we can eliminate one cablecard, saving us $100 per year, which helps to cover the $150 annual subscription fee. Plus, SD's decision (at least so far) not to implement tuner sharing, and that each "client" consumes a tuner channel when it is turned on, likely means we have to use an extra cablecard to ensure we have enough tuners to support recording and live TV usage. TiVo also doesn't implement tuner sharing, but they also don't automatically start TV viewing when the Bolt/Mini are turned on.

As long as the hardware, software and program guide data keep working, continuing to use WMC remains our cheapest option - and still the best overall DVR. Unfortunately, Comcast may break that if the Xbox 360s can't view copy protected H.264 programs.

[mcewinter]

Plus, SD's decision (at least so far) not to implement tuner sharing, and that each "client" consumes a tuner channel when it is turned on, likely means we have to use an extra cablecard to ensure we have enough tuners to support recording and live TV usage.

https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewt ... 15#p250515

[mdavej]

TiVo also doesn't implement tuner sharing, but they also don't automatically start TV viewing when the Bolt/Mini are turned on.

Typically you would just leave the Bolt on. So when you turn on your TV, live TV is already playing. There is very little power savings in standby. Minis standby no matter what, but a press of the Live TV button gets you back to live immediately.

While tuner sharing isn't implemented, all tuners are buffered all the time and you can switch among any of them without losing the buffer. You can even record from the beginning of any buffer. So those are advantages over Ceton and SD IMO.

[webminster]

So, the Bolt Plus has been announced, the fabled 6-tuner Bolt: http://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/

[adam1991]

Still the stupid form factor, but at least it's black.

[STC]

If you hang on five minutes I'll make you one.
ovqnIBQuezA

[STC]

...and all with the beautiful Rovi service plan.

$149 annual, $14.99 monthly (with 1-year commitment) or $549 "All-in" (but not Lifetime).

Bargain.

[Space]

That's some expensive crap!

[bob_p]

For those of us looking for a WMC replacement with DRM support, we only have two options today - cable/satellite DVRs (for us Comcast's X1) or TiVo. Even when SD gets live TV (with buffering) and DRM support, the overall environment is going to fall short of a WMC replacement (at least for us). And while the Plex DVR could provide more functionality, it also lacks live TV support and may never support DRM.

With Comcast transitioning soon to H.264 in our area, and potentially breaking premium channels on our Xbox 360 extenders, WMC may start having problems soon, in addition to the ongoing problems with Microsoft's program guide service (which we should be able to overcome by shifting to EPG123).

For our configuration, I priced out how much it would cost for us to deploy SD's DVR, Comcast's X1, and TiVo's new Bolt+.

While WMC will always be the least expensive option (since we already own all of the hardware), if SD's DVR provided us comparable "whole home DVR" using our WMC PC as the "DVR" server for our house, it would be the least expensive replacement - costing us $1600 for 3 years and $2050 for 5 years (assuming we only buy replacements for our Xbox extenders). If we have to replace the WMC PC as our DVR server, the cost would go up.

With the TiVo Bolt+, the 3 year cost increases to $2150 and the 5 year cost increases to $2650, more expensive primarily because we have to buy all new equipment.

Comcast's X1 is the most expensive, the 3 year cost is $2160 (about the same as TiVo), but because we are renting all of the equipment, the 5 year cost is much higher at $3600.

Last night, after my wife found out the new Bolt+ will be available for order this week, she said she's doesn't want to wait any longer on a WMC replacement, and wants us to order a Bolt+ and a couple of extenders and try that out for a few weeks, before making a final decision. While WMC is a better DVR environment than SD's DVR or Comcast's X1, the TiVo Bolt gets pretty close to the functionality we've been using in WMC, provides integration with Comcast's On Demand and the major streaming services, and it's a supported platform getting software updates (a new UI is supposed be coming soon).

We're estimating TiVo will end up costing us $10 to $15 more per month than using SD's DVR - and if we get more functionality with a supported platform, it's worthwhile paying for it. And in the long run, we'll still save about $1000 over a 5 year period over renting Comcast's boxes.

I was hoping to hold off making a decision for longer - and give SD (and now Plex) more time to build an acceptable WMC replacement...