<sigh> Tivo, here I come?

[STC]

I think it will happen....very slowly....

It's the metadata that needs the help. That's probably a tough nut to crack considering how much of it there is.

[Space]

Hopefully the larger numbers of TiVo users will force Rovi to do a better job with their guide data...

I'm not holding my breath.

Eric

I would not be surprised to see them totally destroy TiVo before they fix their guide data issues. This is just my own opinion based on Rovi's prior history, but I hope I'm wrong...

[adam1991]

what do you mean by "totally destroy"?

[Space]

I guess I'm being a bit dramatic... I just meant that if they ignore their TiVo customer base because they have other priorities. Causing a mass exodus of TiVo users.

No one knows the true intentions of Rovi, what plans they have once they own TiVo, perhaps they only want the patents so they can sue everyone that they consider are infringing on one or more of them. Even if that is not their intent, it may end up that way once they reevaluate the business.

You can already see that the cutover to Rovi data is not going very well. Is it because they just don't care that much or because they had limited time to do the transition? (or maybe a bit of both). They certainly didn't care that much about fixing the quality issues when WMC users got cutover. Is that going to change now? I don't think that TiVo users will be as forgiving as WMC users (since WMC is technically a dead product and no one is really paying for the service).

I hope that the TiVo migration will cause Rovi to finally get it together and provide a service that can more closely rival Gracenote, but I am a skeptical.

[bob_p]

A major difference between the TiVo migration to Rovi and what we went through with WMC is that TiVo is still actively doing software development and is providing actual support for their customers, and is still trying to get new customers. [That's assuming Rovi wants to continue generating revenue from TiVo after the acquisition.]

Some of the problem we're having with the Rovi data is likely caused by the tools Microsoft is using for the guide data service. For example, we used to be able to sort the Movie Guide by "Year" - the year the movie was released, making it easy to see when recent movies get released. The release date is not present in the Rovi data - only the "Original Air Date", which is pretty useless for most movies. And, because of that, sorting the movies by "Year" shows the movies listed as Year "0". Surely Rovi has that data, and the Microsoft tool pulling the Rovi data isn't picking it up. And because WMC really isn't being supported by Microsoft, it's probably not going to be fixed.

Though... We really don't have a lot of choices at this point for those of us who need DRM and want to have a DVR (instead of streaming). If the cable companies (like Comcast) roll out h264, that's going to kill WMC (at least for those of us using extenders). SD's DVR is the only "DIY" DVR alternative for those with DRM requirements, and their functionality is going to fall short of WMC in several areas for at least their first release. Which leaves us with the DVRs provided by the cable companies (which are better than they used to be, but still have limitations compared to WMC) or TiVo.

So, even if TiVo customers are disappointed with the Rovi data quality - what are they really going to do about it? Rent a cable DVR?

[STC]

It appears that their "ton of testing" consisted of an elephant standing on a remote.

Loving these. My kind of humour.

[STC]

Yep, they are having a whole host of issues. Wow....

It baffles me how a data company like Rovi could have so much incorrect data in their database.

I can only guess that they have other priorities. I assume they have the lesser cost product (the reason why Microsoft migrated to them last year), and therefore don't have the same resources to keep things working as well as Gracenote does.

Rovi has been aware of these issues for at least a year (when the WMC migration took place). It's like Déjà vu here only on a larger scale.

We can only hope that the much larger user base of TiVo users will finally make them realize that they have a problem.

[Scallica]

Coming soon, EPG123 for Tivo?

[adam1991]

File this under misery loves company:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh ... st10978370

[kmp14]

File this under misery loves company:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh ... st10978370

So Rovi=TiVo and TiVo=Rovi, but the data is still a total mess, just like it was/is with WMC. Thank goodness for Epg123!

[STC]

The deal breaker

Season and Episode are so critical! They have to get this fixed! OnePass has the ability to start recordings from a specific Season. Unbelievable.

Ya think?!

[Space]

The merger between TiVo and Rovi has not taken place yet. I assume this migration was in anticipation of the merger and they had very little time to make sure things went smoothly (their Gracenote contract was expiring). I have no doubt that if it wasn't for the pending merger they would not have transitioned to Rovi data, at least not without making Rovi clean up their act beforehand (if that is even possible).

TiVo indicated that the transition would result in "a superior program guide" and "more accurate program information" and that they did extensive testing and did not find any major issues. Their testing and evaluation of the quality of guide data was severely inadequate. Some may say they outright lied, hoping to fix the issues after the migration deadline, using their customer base a guinea pigs. I am not sure that many of these issues CAN be fixed (at least without extensive changes at Rovi).

[webminster]

I vaguely recall the Microsoft KB article about how the guide switchover would be seamless and basically unnoticeable... Looking at their forums, they're about as PO'd as we were. Seems no one does due diligence well anymore.

[STC]

http://www.rovicorp.com/products-and-so ... /data.html

A high-quality metadata catalog provides the foundation for intuitive search and navigation, enabling users to easily find their favorite TV shows, movies, music, celebrities, books and games, as well as discover new ones. With 60+ years of experience in consolidating, normalizing and structuring entertainment metadata, Rovi has developed an ID structure often viewed as an industry standard. We dedicate hundreds of people across the globe, covering countries in North and Latin America, Europe and Asia, consistently processing millions of program and episode changes. Our expertly created editorial content and collection of images create eye-catching and engaging entertainment experiences to differentiate your product or service. It’s this global breadth and content depth that create cross-category links, helping drive additional consumption and engaging fans by making connections across multiple media types. Deliver a unique consumer experience, increase consumption, build loyalty and ultimately drive revenue with the catalog that’s deep, broad, comprehensive and current: Rovi Metadata.

[bob_p]

Received a letter from Comcast yesterday that they will be upgrading our area to H.264/MP4 next month. Since it appears this will break the Xbox 360 extenders, which cannot display copy protected H.264 videos, we may be forced to make a decision soon on a replacement for WMC.

Even if the guide data isn't great, what alternatives do we really have today for WMC? For us - we could use the Comcast X1 and rent a bunch of Comcast boxes or the other alternative is TiVo Bolt plus a bunch of Minis. The SD DVR software doesn't yet support DRM or live TV buffering.

DRM support is the primary feature missing from other "DIY" DVR alternatives to WMC - and it's frustrating that we still don't have DRM support in the SD DVR product, which they had originally planned to release almost a year ago...

[adam1991]

Your third option is to decide that the DRM channels, and perhaps the entire Comcast product itself, is not relevant to what you're trying to achieve--and simply ditch them completely.

It's not hard. Really it's not. It's a change, but change in and of itself isn't bad. Many have done it.

Think of it like moving across the country. It's change, it requires that you make adjustments, but in the end you're in a better place.

Once you ditch the cableco TV, your choices are wide open. You can keep WMC, like I did; my entire recording lineup moved over seamlessly. All I did was re-run TV setup, choose the new tuners, OK the new channels, and done.

[webminster]

Fort Collins CO. I guess I just got my letter today, offering an equipment upgrade, suggesting I have until end-October to avoid having issues with HD channels. I have Linksys extenders, and premium channels. I've been dreading this day, this is going to be ugly and expensive.

[rmeden]

Coming soon, EPG123 for Tivo?

I don't see that happening... I doubt SD could get permission to provide guide data from Gracenote... at least not before Tivo locks it's doors.

(An exception was granted because WMC is a dead product)

Robert
President, Schedules Direct
(among other things)

[STC]

Fort Collins CO. I guess I just got my letter today, offering an equipment upgrade, suggesting I have until end-October to avoid having issues with HD channels. I have Linksys extenders, and premium channels. I've been dreading this day, this is going to be ugly and expensive.

Ahh nasty

[bob_p]

Fort Collins CO. I guess I just got my letter today, offering an equipment upgrade, suggesting I have until end-October to avoid having issues with HD channels. I have Linksys extenders, and premium channels. I've been dreading this day, this is going to be ugly and expensive.

With WMC, we made hardware investments (PC, tuners, Xbox 360s) under the assumption that we'd keep the hardware for at least 5 years - and that we'd have an overall savings because we weren't paying Comcast monthly fees for DVR & STB boxes and services.

We've used WMC for much longer than 5 years, and because the only recurring costs we have are for the cablecard rental, we've saved a lot of $$ over the years - and continuing to run WMC is by far the cheapest solution - and also still has the best overall functionality.

However... We'll have to switch off WMC eventually - and Comcast's H.264 deployment may accelerate our decision.

Any alternative is going to cost more money - whether it's renting X1 DVR & STB hardware or purchasing new hardware to run SD's DVR or TiVo, assuming DRM support is needed.

Assuming we'll use any WMC replacement for at least 5 years, we are still saving $$$ if we purchase new hardware to use SD's DVR or TiVo, compared to renting X1 hardware for our entire house. For us (replacing a WMC PC and 6 Xbox 360 extenders), over a 5 year period, it looks like we'll save about $1,000 using SD's DVR or TiVo, over Comcast's X1 - and if we use the new DVR longer than 5 years, the savings increases.

So if you are planning to move off WMC - move to something you're confident should work for you for at least 3 to 5 years - and amortize the cost of your new hardware over that time - and you'll likely see you're better off to buy new hardware now - than paying a monthly to rent hardware.