FIOS vs Comcast

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tombardo

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FIOS vs Comcast

#1

Post by tombardo » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:10 pm

Verizon recently laid fiber in my neighborhood and I now have the option of getting FIOS for internet and TV (phone too, but I use OOMA). I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle of switching from Comcast since I have my network and media center (with ceton infinitv4) running very well right now (knock on wood). Switching to FIOS won't save me much money (less than $5 a month), the channel lineups are comparable, and I would get a small boost in internet speeds. That gives me some small motivation to switch (plus the fact that I generally despise comcast), but I'm wondering if it will be worth the pain of switching cable cards, setting up my TV tuner again, and reconfiguring my network to use the router/modem device provided with FIOS. Any thoughts? Do people have good experience with FIOS over comcast? Or this one of those "the devil you know" kind of things?

Does anyone use/need a coax amplifier with FIOS? I use one for Comcast, but I'm guessing it won't work with FIOS.

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makryger

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#2

Post by makryger » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:30 pm

The one nice thing I've noticed about fios is that their prices seem to stay pretty stable with a two year contract, and then you can always renew the contract. Comcast tends to offer an attractive price initially, and then it skyrockets.

At the very least, switching to a new provider every so often (or even the act of telling Comcast that you'll leave) can save you some money. Don't forget to look into sign up bonuses!

Fios is said to have better customer service, if you have issues.
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#3

Post by lithium630 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:52 pm

Wish I had the option. Verizon started laying fiber around here. Then one day they sold all their lines to Fairpoint and ran from the state. Fairpoint is always one step from bankruptcy and will never run fiber. I dislike Comcast a lot.

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#4

Post by glugglug » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:46 pm

Don't have experience with comcast, but could make a pretty good guess at the differences.

Your splitters/amplifiers/etc. will work. But you probably want to have amplifiers applied only to the signal to your computer tuners, NOT the FIOS router or set top boxes, as it might make the MoCA not work as well. And they might not be necessary, as the FIOS signal is stronger than most cable signals to begin with.

You will need a low-pass filter to keep the MoCA signals from interfering with a handful of channels. If you don't have any set-top boxes, you can alternatively hook up your own router instead of the crappy FIOS router with an ethernet run from the ONT to the router instead of the coax.

The picture quality is far better on FIOS than it was with TWC. I've read many times that Comcast overcompresses to fit more channels yielding lower picture quality.

FIOS customer service has been usually great when I've called them, which is kind of shocking after previous experience with TWC. Although reaching a person through their voicemail maze is quite difficult. They respond much more quickly to the online chat. Although there are certain recognizable language characteristics etc. that tell me the customer support is routed to India despite the Americanized "names", it is much better than most.

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#5

Post by epayson85 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:20 pm

I have had both and Fios wins hands down. Getting my cable cards working was flawless with fios. WIth Comcast it was a nightmare mostly because they have so many non working cable cards in circulation, at least in the boston area. Also fios has INCREDIBLE upload speeds on their internet connection which is great for streaming live tv.

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#6

Post by dandys » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:14 pm

Just to warn you, with FIOS, if you're subscribed to both TV and internet service, you cannot use your own router and have to use the one they supply.

They supply a gigabit router which can do things like port forwarding etc., but cannot do VPN (to access network tuners away from home theoretically, never tested this) or AC wireless (needed to watch HD television from network tuner wirelessly).

There is a way to hook up your own router as a secondary router/access point if you really want to with FIOS, but it gets complicated.

That's the only caveat, I am subscribed to FIOS after switching from Comcast and like it (wanted faster internet, less cost, and certain international channels not available from Comast in my area)

p.s. Fios shouldn't need a signal amplifier or whatever it's called, I used to have one with Comcast and it was removed when FIOS was installed

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#7

Post by Scallica » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:52 pm

dandys wrote:Just to warn you, with FIOS, if you're subscribed to both TV and internet service, you cannot use your own router and have to use the one they supply.
False. Verzion installs an optical network terminal (ONT) at one's residence. The ONT has both coax and Ethernet outputs. The Internet service can be activated on either port. During the installation of FiOS or anytime after, you can request that Internet service be activated on the Ethernet interface of the ONT. Once it is activated, you can plug your own router into it. The FiOS router is really only needed to provide guide data to the set top boxes via MoCA. You can simply give your FiOS router a local IP on your LAN (192.168.1.2) and your set top boxes will be able to retrieve guide data.
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werds

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#8

Post by werds » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:30 pm

Scallica wrote:
dandys wrote:Just to warn you, with FIOS, if you're subscribed to both TV and internet service, you cannot use your own router and have to use the one they supply.
False. Verzion installs an optical network terminal (ONT) at one's residence. The ONT has both coax and Ethernet outputs. The Internet service can be activated on either port. During the installation of FiOS or anytime after, you can request that Internet service be activated on the Ethernet interface of the ONT. Once it is activated, you can plug your own router into it. The FiOS router is really only needed to provide guide data to the set top boxes via MoCA. You can simply give your FiOS router a local IP on your LAN (192.168.1.2) and your set top boxes will be able to retrieve guide data.
Do you still have to pay a lease fee for the FIOS router?

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Scallica

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#9

Post by Scallica » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:07 pm

werds wrote: Do you still have to pay a lease fee for the FIOS router?
There is no lease fee for the router.
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glugglug

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#10

Post by glugglug » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:05 pm

Scallica wrote:
dandys wrote:Just to warn you, with FIOS, if you're subscribed to both TV and internet service, you cannot use your own router and have to use the one they supply.
False. Verzion installs an optical network terminal (ONT) at one's residence. The ONT has both coax and Ethernet outputs. The Internet service can be activated on either port. During the installation of FiOS or anytime after, you can request that Internet service be activated on the Ethernet interface of the ONT. Once it is activated, you can plug your own router into it. The FiOS router is really only needed to provide guide data to the set top boxes via MoCA. You can simply give your FiOS router a local IP on your LAN (192.168.1.2) and your set top boxes will be able to retrieve guide data.
The FIOS router also has port forwards automatically set up for remote DVR access and caller ID on TV. And for the stupid software they want you to install on your PC so the set top box can pull files from it. So you will want to look through the config of their router and duplicate it (and the DHCP IP assignments for your set top boxes) to your own router. And officially, that configuration is not supported, so there is a chance the techs could refuse to help you. They can tell remotely whether you are using the FIOS router because it also listens on port 127 for the techs to remote into it (which you might not want security wise).

IIRC their router DOES have VPN and you can definitely set up whatever forwards you want in it to remote control your PC. But I would recommend using your own anyway because theirs is severely underpowered and you will get better LAN throughput on your own (even with a low end SOHO router).

What you can do which looks the same as using their router is give the IP addresses from your router's DHCP server a different subnet (i.e. use 192.168.2.0/24 instead of 192.168.1.0/24), and put the FIOS router behind yours in a DMZ.
There is no lease fee for the router
You actually OWN the FIOS router. On your initial bill it shows like a $130 line item for the router with a $130 sign up rebate.

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#11

Post by dandys » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:35 pm

Scallica wrote:
dandys wrote:Just to warn you, with FIOS, if you're subscribed to both TV and internet service, you cannot use your own router and have to use the one they supply.
False. Verzion installs an optical network terminal (ONT) at one's residence. The ONT has both coax and Ethernet outputs. The Internet service can be activated on either port. During the installation of FiOS or anytime after, you can request that Internet service be activated on the Ethernet interface of the ONT. Once it is activated, you can plug your own router into it. The FiOS router is really only needed to provide guide data to the set top boxes via MoCA. You can simply give your FiOS router a local IP on your LAN (192.168.1.2) and your set top boxes will be able to retrieve guide data.
Are you saying that there is an option to have WAN come out of the Ethernet port and TV come out of the coax port of the same ONT? Then, could you just have no FIOS router at all and sacrifice the guide data (if using other method like cablecard tuner) or plug in the FIOS router with WAN? That would be great news I didn't know that. I was under the impression that it was either/or (both over coax if you have tv, just Ethernet if you don't)

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#12

Post by glugglug » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:11 pm

dandys wrote: Are you saying that there is an option to have WAN come out of the Ethernet port and TV come out of the coax port of the same ONT? Then, could you just have no FIOS router at all and sacrifice the guide data (if using other method like cablecard tuner) or plug in the FIOS router with WAN? That would be great news I didn't know that. I was under the impression that it was either/or (both over coax if you have tv, just Ethernet if you don't)
Yes. There is a user-access side of the ONT that you can open and find the ethernet port there to run a line to your router. Once that is done you need to call FIOS support to have them switch the ethernet port to be active for your internet instead of the coax.

I would say even if you are going to use the FIOS router as your primary, having it attached through ethernet would be preferred, as the MoCA->ethernet transition adds about 4ms latency. But typically the installers don't do this because it means they need to run 2 cables between the ONT and the router instead of 1.

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#13

Post by werds » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:35 pm

dandys wrote:<snip> Then, could you just have no FIOS router at all and sacrifice the guide data (if using other method like cablecard tuner) or plug in the FIOS router with WAN? That would be great news I didn't know that. I was under the impression that it was either/or (both over coax if you have tv, just Ethernet if you don't)
Wow, so wait basically if I were to get FIOS and not use their set top boxes (use only a WMC cable card system) there wouldn't be a need for the FIOS router period then? If that is the case I am even more envious of peoples with FIOS... definitely might make a difference in decision making when we start looking for our next residence in a few years....

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#14

Post by Scallica » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:34 am

werds wrote: Wow, so wait basically if I were to get FIOS and not use their set top boxes (use only a WMC cable card system) there wouldn't be a need for the FIOS router period then?
Correct. You can use their router as an extra wireless access point in your residence. All you have to do is give the LAN interface a static IP on your network, disable the DHCP server, and plug it in!
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#15

Post by blueiedgod » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:17 pm

werds wrote:
dandys wrote:<snip> Then, could you just have no FIOS router at all and sacrifice the guide data (if using other method like cablecard tuner) or plug in the FIOS router with WAN? That would be great news I didn't know that. I was under the impression that it was either/or (both over coax if you have tv, just Ethernet if you don't)
Wow, so wait basically if I were to get FIOS and not use their set top boxes (use only a WMC cable card system) there wouldn't be a need for the FIOS router period then? If that is the case I am even more envious of peoples with FIOS... definitely might make a difference in decision making when we start looking for our next residence in a few years....

We are using a $15 Belkin router with DD-WRT as the main router with FiOS.

I ended up using the FiOS router, along with a few more I bought on ebay to set up MoCA at my sister's house for their "Whole house DVR" using WMC and Extenders, since they did not want to fish wires, and mess associated with it, but had an existing coax wiring in place.

Those Actiontec routers make EXCELLENT MoCA adapters, and with a little bit of persistence and patience, you can snag them on ebay for about $10-$15.If you bind wi-fi, Ethernet, and MoCA together then they also act as wi-fi access points, further expanding your wi-fi coverage in the house.

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#16

Post by barnabas1969 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 pm

blueiedgod wrote:We are using a $15 Belkin router with DD-WRT as the main router with FiOS.
This is OT, but after my experience with three different models of Belkin routers, I'll never buy another Belkin anything.

EDIT: Well, except for bulk cable, of course. That was where Belkin got their start, and they still make good quality cable.

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#17

Post by IownFIVEechos » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:53 pm

barnabas1969 wrote:
blueiedgod wrote:We are using a $15 Belkin router with DD-WRT as the main router with FiOS.
This is OT, but after my experience with three different models of Belkin routers, I'll never buy another Belkin anything.

EDIT: Well, except for bulk cable, of course. That was where Belkin got their start, and they still make good quality cable.

I use Tripp Lite cables. And I credit that to why my echos work. So many people use no name brands. Just saying..

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#18

Post by barnabas1969 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:01 am

IownFIVEechos wrote:
barnabas1969 wrote:
blueiedgod wrote:We are using a $15 Belkin router with DD-WRT as the main router with FiOS.
This is OT, but after my experience with three different models of Belkin routers, I'll never buy another Belkin anything.

EDIT: Well, except for bulk cable, of course. That was where Belkin got their start, and they still make good quality cable.

I use Tripp Lite cables. And I credit that to why my echos work. So many people use no name brands. Just saying..
Do you really believe that Tripp-Lite makes their own cables? Belkin has been in the cable business for decades... and I'm not even 100% sure that THEY make their own cables. I'm almost 100% sure that Trip-Lite doesn't make cables.

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#19

Post by blueiedgod » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:47 pm

barnabas1969 wrote:
blueiedgod wrote:We are using a $15 Belkin router with DD-WRT as the main router with FiOS.
This is OT, but after my experience with three different models of Belkin routers, I'll never buy another Belkin anything.

EDIT: Well, except for bulk cable, of course. That was where Belkin got their start, and they still make good quality cable.
Stock Belkin formware was utter crap! It crippled a really good router.

For what it is worth, I only use Free (after rebate) cables. :-)

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