FCC Approves Encryption of Basic Tier Channels

[barnabas1969]

It looks like you can receive quite a lot of channels with a simple set-top (indoor) antenna in Lansdale, PA. Check out the link (and picture) below. It appears that with an indoor antenna, you can receive CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CW, ION, MyNetwork, Univision, three PBS channels, and several independents.

Here's the link to the TVFool report for Lansdale, PA. You'll want to use their tool, and enter your exact address for a more accurate report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp ... ae5b79e711

[VikingCrown]

Interesting, I had forgotten that the card would do OTA. So if i go get something like one of these:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... =CT2032189
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... =CT2032189

then just plug it into the card and scan i should get them right? If so i'll run out today at lunch and give it a shot, would be nice to at least keep the card functional instead of scrapping it all together.

[foxwood]

The Comcast rep was talking about the switch from analog terrestrial broadcasts to digital terrestrial broadcasts...which was a government mandated switch.

Why would a Comcast rep be saying anything about terrestrial broadcasts? Cable companies don't make terrestrial broadcasts, and the "analog switchover" occurred 3 years ago.

The rep was trying to blame the loss of ClearQAM signals on a "Government mandate", when the only relevant Government mandate did not apply to Comcast. It was clearly misleading, though it's likely that the rep was an idiot who didn't know what s/he was talking about, rather than a deliberate lie to get the customer to go away and stop bothering them.

[foxwood]

The purpose of a DTA is to enable a TV without a digital tuner to receive a signal that is broadcast digitally. Most HDTVs have digital tuners, so no DTA would be necessary. The target user for the DTA is someone with a TV that only has an analog tuner, and the majority of those TVs are not HD. Therefore, it only makes sense that a DTA be designed to output an SD signal.

Except that once Comcast start encrypting their basic channels, even new TVs that do have a digital tuner will need a "basic" set top box to display a signal, and the FCC hasn't mandated that the "free" box will have to deliver a HD picture.

[barnabas1969]

@foxwood: Thanks, you got my points exactly.

@VikingCrown: You can try those antennas. Unfortunately, the Radio Shack website doesn't list much about the specs on them. You need a combination VHF/UHF antenna, because some of the channels (most notably ABC) are on VHF channels. Give it a shot. Buy one, and if it doesn't work well you can take it back. The sales people at Radio Shack probably won't be able to help you beyond selling whatever they have in stock, but if you have a local mom-n-pop electronics store, they might know exactly what you need for your area. In my case, I have a local electronics store that has been around for nearly 50 years... and the old guy who owns/runs the place knew exactly what I needed to get perfect reception.

[VikingCrown]

Barnabas, i grabbed on at lunch. user manual says it does both VHF and UHF, will give it a shot tonight and hope it works!

[slowbiscuit]

The math is simple
Comcast/Telco's make campaign donations and gets people making policy decisions on their side
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-ten-c ... l?page=all
They use new policy to make money

Its old fashioned bribery.

Not only that, become an FCC commish and reap the rewards! They don't call it a revolving door for nothing, one of them is current head of the NCTA and another started lobbying for Comcast a few months after she approved the controversial merger with NBCU...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201105 ... rsal.shtml

Ya gotta admire the corporate kleptocracy in this country just because of the sheer greed of it all, and that no one seems to know how we can get back to being a republic.

[richard1980]

Richard, I agree the reps don't have a clue what they are talking about (we all know that) however it seems odd that shortly before the FCC mandate more that one person lost their QAM channels. I can also say that this happened to me at 2 different residences. I moved on October 6th and had lost my channels probably October 3rd or 4th. The when i moved to my new place (same area) The channel loss is exactly the same.
I have tried re-scanning and still nothing. I can start another thread but i suspect i am pretty much SOL when it comes to clear QAM and comcast now.

I'll just have to get myself an InfiniTV4 and ditch my 2250. Maybe i can sell my DCR-2650 to offset the InfiniTV4's cost.

All I'm saying is the other thread doesn't really tell us anything useful about what has happened. All we know at this point is people lost their channels, but nobody has been able to say why. The Comcast reps certainly weren't of any help. It's pretty inconclusive at this point.

If the channels are encrypted, it's easy enough to find out in WMC. Scan for channels, then go to Tasks > Settings > TV > Guide > Edit Channels. You will see a list of all channels found during the channel scan. If WMC has mapped a channel number to a guide listing, you'll see the name of the channel. Otherwise, you'll see the channel number. Additionally, encrypted channels will have a padlock icon. Obviously if a channel is completely absent, it was not found at all. But if it was found, it should be easy to figure out if the channel has been encrypted or whether WMC just can't figure out what guide listing to pair with the channel.

[richard1980]

The Comcast rep was talking about the switch from analog terrestrial broadcasts to digital terrestrial broadcasts...which was a government mandated switch.

Why would a Comcast rep be saying anything about terrestrial broadcasts? Cable companies don't make terrestrial broadcasts, and the "analog switchover" occurred 3 years ago.

The rep was trying to blame the loss of ClearQAM signals on a "Government mandate", when the only relevant Government mandate did not apply to Comcast. It was clearly misleading, though it's likely that the rep was an idiot who didn't know what s/he was talking about, rather than a deliberate lie to get the customer to go away and stop bothering them.

Don't ask me. I'm not the idiot that told someone they couldn't receive ClearQAM channels because of the digital switchover. But it's obvious that the Comcast rep was talking about the digital switchover, which has nothing to do with ClearQAM. Idiots.

The purpose of a DTA is to enable a TV without a digital tuner to receive a signal that is broadcast digitally. Most HDTVs have digital tuners, so no DTA would be necessary. The target user for the DTA is someone with a TV that only has an analog tuner, and the majority of those TVs are not HD. Therefore, it only makes sense that a DTA be designed to output an SD signal.

Except that once Comcast start encrypting their basic channels, even new TVs that do have a digital tuner will need a "basic" set top box to display a signal, and the FCC hasn't mandated that the "free" box will have to deliver a HD picture.

No, they haven't, but we weren't talking about this new box. We were talking about a DTA. A DTA shouldn't have HD outputs. Of course, I have no idea why a Comcast rep started talking about a DTA in the first place. Yet again, it's showing the stupidity of the rep. If a customer is complaining about lost reception on a ClearQAM tuner, a DTA is not the solution.

[VikingCrown]

Just wanted to follow up, I did get that antenna and was able to get all my locals back in HD with strong signals across the board! Very excited.

Richard, I had checked under the Tasks > Settings > TV > Guide > Edit Channels and I enabled everything that was not padlocked however the locals other than ABCHD did not show up with actual text. I tested everything that wasn't padlocked thinking maybe they just didn't have the right PSIP data in the stream to properly identify the channel (CBS and NBC had done that in the past showing up under 8.1 and 8.2 instead of 6.1 and 10.1) but none of them were there.

At this point I can only assume that they have encrypted them or something else super weird is going on. For now I will roll with the OTA locals and my DCR-2650, that should keep me afloat until Ceton can roll out that InfiniTV6 card and then i can just use that for everything!

[barnabas1969]

Richard, I had checked under the Tasks > Settings > TV > Guide > Edit Channels and I enabled everything that was not padlocked however the locals other than ABCHD did not show up with actual text.

Are you saying that these channels showed up in the guide, but without any EPG information? Were you able to watch the channels that did not have any EPG info? If so, then you probably just needed to link the channels to a guide data source. You can do that in the Media Center menus as well.

[VikingCrown]

I'm saying that ABCHD showed up correctly as 6.1 and the other channels that it picked up were things like 34.4, 56.2 ... I tried enabling all the channels like that. They all showed up as no guide data, however they were able to tune in a station. most of them were qvc and such.

[richard1980]

Well that's proof that Comcast did not suddenly start encrypting the basic tier for you (or you wouldn't have any unlocked channels). Instead, it looks like they've changed the channel alignment and possibly the naming. The reason why you don't have guide data for some channels is because WMC does not know what listing to use for those channels. You'll need to manually link the channels to listings and enable the channels in the guide. Go to Tasks > Settings > TV > Guide > Edit Channels and click a channel, then select Edit Listings. Find the channel name in the list, click on it, then save your settings. If the channel is checked in the Edit Channels screen, it should appear in the guide with listings.

Like I said before, if a channel is encrypted, it will show up in the Edit Channels list with a padlock. You'll need to know what channel number for any channels you think might be encrypted, then go through the list and see. For example, if you know NBC is 4.1, go through the list and see if 4.1 is listed with a padlock. If it is, then Comcast has encrypted the channel. If not, then the channel was not found during the channel scan. That doesn't mean the channel is encrypted. It only means WMC failed to find it, and you'll have to investigate why.

[barnabas1969]

Richard, if the only non-encrypted channels he found were things like QVC and HSN, then it is very possible that all his broadcast channels are encrypted. If you read the FCC ruling, they said that if a cable company decides to encrypt the basic channels, that they have to encrypt ALL of the "broadcast" channels. The cable companies argued that things like QVC and HSN don't qualify as "broadcast" channels.

[richard1980]

Richard, if the only non-encrypted channels he found were things like QVC and HSN, then it is very possible that all his broadcast channels are encrypted.

While it is possible, it is highly unlikely. Before you can make a determination about the encryption status, you first have to get WMC to find the channels. If they are found and they are encrypted, they'll be listed in the Edit Channels screen with a padlock. If they are found and they are not encrypted, they will be listed in the Edit Channels screen without a padlock. If they are not found, they won't be listed in the Edit Channels screen. The absence of the channels from the Edit Channels screen doesn't mean they are encrypted. It means the channels weren't found. The question isn't whether or not they are encrypted...the question is why can't WMC find the channels?

If you read the FCC ruling, they said that if a cable company decides to encrypt the basic channels, that they have to encrypt ALL of the "broadcast" channels.

I am unable to find any such statement in this ruling. Please point me to the statement.

The cable companies argued that things like QVC and HSN don't qualify as "broadcast" channels.

And they are correct. A "broadcast" channel is one that is delivered over the air. So unless QVC and HSN are delivered OTA, they are not broadcast channels.

[glorp]

...the question is why can't WMC find the channels?

Because Comcast moved the locals to low frequency channels, usually in the 2-35 digital range and the OP is, or was, an Internet-only/Old Limited Basic subscriber who has had a high-pass trap placed on his drop to prevent the old Extended Basic analog channels from being viewed for free. That's one reason why it can happen.

These channels should be listed at the SiliconDust web site for clearQAM if they are still there.

[ragnarrok]

Just noticed my shows were not recording... 2250 on Time Warner Cable. Regular channels are fine, but the QAM channels are gone... I've always had to add them manually so I've gotten pretty good at it. I just have a basic package and I go straight from the coax into the 2250. I lost my channels on my HDTV as well but a scan (which took forever) took care of that. I've noticed the "channels" have changed (using the silicondust website) but using even those values I still get nada in my media center. During a auto scan, I see about 40 channels come up (including my HD ones that I used to have), and as it gets towards the end they start to disappear and I always end up with one useless channel that I don't care about. Guess I'm out of luck without a cable box?

[richard1980]

If you can tune the channels on your TV, you should be able to tune the channels with your 2250.

[ragnarrok]

I assumed as much, but for the life of me I cannot get my QAM channels back. I suppose there is the off chance (coincidence) that my card is malfunctioning as well. A clean install yields the same results, so it doesn't seem to be software related.

[ragnarrok]

If I try to add a QAM256 channel manually using my 2250 (as I have done for quite some time using values for my area on the SD website; the auto scan doesn't report finding them anymore) I get:

Service is unavailable. There is currently no TV signal detected for this channel.

On my machine with a clean install, using a new HVR-9500 I did a full scan. It took forever and it didn't come up with any channels, but if I go to "edit channels" I can see them in there (4.1, 11.1 etc). They are NOT checked and NOT padlocked, but when I add them and try going to that channel I get:

Service is scrambled. The current service is encrypted and can not be viewed at this time.

Which is kind of weird, I would have expected it to be padlocked then... but I guess they are encrypted after all? Still don't know why my TV finds them fine! I guess my TV is just awesome. Really bummed though.