Planned Home Network [Cabling]

Talk about setting up your home network.
ruff_hi

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Planned Home Network [Cabling]

#1

Post by ruff_hi » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:29 pm

I'm researching setting up some Echo extenders around my house so that we can move to a 100% WMC house, hand back the cablevision boxes and save $s per month.

To do this, I will need to ethernet network my house. Initial plans will be something 'quick and dirty' to get it up and running. Longer term (probably over the winter), I will spend some time actually running cables, setting it all up nice and 'proper'.

At present, my cable modem, vonage box and wireless router are all in the study and look like this ...

Image

My thoughts are to move the cable modem and vonage down into the basement and run 1 (or 2 or more?) ethernet cables into the study where I will put in a switch (new - probably in a cupboard) and then run a wire to the wireless modem and out to the other rooms (as required). The image below is my initial thoughts regarding what I am planning.

Image

Note: That I am only talking about network items here. The existing phone and coaxial cabling will not be changed / modified. I'll need to keep at least one TV active to feed the stream into my HTPC. I am hoping to drop the two running to my TVs and provide television coverage via extenders off the HTPC.

The wire(s) running from the basement to the study would follow this layout (idea lifted from this thread) ...
[VONAGE] > patch cable > [KEYSTONE JACK in a mounted bracket] > CAT6 solid cable (in-wall / basement) > [KEYSTONE JACK in a mounted bracket] > patch cable > [GIGABIT SWITCH] > patch cable(s) > [NETWORKED DEVICE(S)]
So ... thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Ideas? etc.

sbaeder

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#2

Post by sbaeder » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:25 pm

shouldn't the "router" come before the switch? i.e. who is handing out the IP addresses (DHCP), or is your modem actually a router too? And does Vonage pass thru, or ???

Otherwise, you're on the right track - i.e. hard-lines to each room, and make sure switch or router has bandwidth to handle streaming from/to the source/destinations involved. Cat6 recommended!

ruff_hi

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#3

Post by ruff_hi » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:42 pm

sbaeder wrote:shouldn't the "router" come before the switch?
This is why I am asking. I think you are right. If I have it right ... my wireless router controls what is inside my network and what is outside of my network. As such, the switch should be on the inside.

The cable modem has one jack in, one out.
The vonage thingo has one jack in, one out.
The wireless router has one jack leading in and 4 jacks leading out. Can I think of that as a 4-port switch?

I'm looking at adding a switch because 4 jacks isn't going to cut it.

I put together the diagram about because I am planning on coming into the study via a cupboard and I didn't want to put the wireless router there. It seems that I have to ... or come up next to the desk and go from there.

Hmm.
... and make sure switch or router has bandwidth to handle streaming from/to the source/destinations involved. Cat6 recommended!
Absolutely!
for me for future reference wrote: Cat 6 capable of 10GB for 50 M
Cat6E capable of 10GB for 100 Meters

Category 6
The mainstream adoption of Gigabit Ethernet (1000BASE-T) required new industry-standard cables capable of transmitting at a higher frequency of 250 MHz. Category 6 cable uses thicker-gauge wire, increased shielding, and more pair twists per inch to reduce signal noise and interference. The tighter specifications guarantee that 100-meter runs of Category 6 are capable of 1000 Mbit/s transfer speeds. 10-Gigabit Ethernet speeds are achievable when reducing cable lengths to less than 50 meters.

Category 6e
Category 6 Enhanced (6e) is an augmented specification designed to double transmission frequency to 500 MHz. By wrapping Category 6e in grounded foil shielding, full 10-Gigabit Ethernet speeds can be reached without sacrificing the max cable length of 100 meters.
Does this forum have spoiler tags (or similar)?

jec6613

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#4

Post by jec6613 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:00 pm

Especially with Cablevision which has very high WAN speeds, it should go like this:

[Modem]--[Edge Router]--[Switch]--[All other devices, including the wireless AP]

The devices should include your Vonage box, as well as your wireless access point. By splitting the router and WAP into two different boxes, you unburden a single CPU of handling both, so both your wireless performance and your routing performance goes up significantly. The Vonage box should be inside the edge, as it's right now restricting your internet speed as it acts as a router of its own, and it's a cruddy one at that.

This way, also, you can keep all of your devices in the closet except for the one acting as an access point. This also lets you grow your network and replace devices only as you outgrow them, piecemeal, saving money in the long run as the average age of devices can triple or quadruple before they become a bottleneck or require features that they don't poses.

ruff_hi

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#5

Post by ruff_hi » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:46 am

Seems I have a bit to digest. I started by looking at the vonage site regarding setup. I had thought that I had to put the vonage phone adopter before the router. One part of the vonage site said I did, but this part said that I could put it after the router.

I'll be swapping that over in the morning when everyone is asleep.

Now all I have to do is research edge routers and wireless AP (is that 'access point'?). I'll probably stick with my wireless router in the short term ... but I do need some more ethernet ports ... time for a 5-port or 8-port switch.

Edit: I tried to go back and edit the OP but it seems that I can't. Is there some sort of time limit?

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Crash2009

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#6

Post by Crash2009 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:57 am

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=po ... 0&_sacat=0

Don't rush on the switch decision. Business grade gig switches are cheap now. It's amazing how fast a 24 get's filled up.

ruff_hi

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#7

Post by ruff_hi » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:11 am

Update on my current thinking re network ...

Image

I'm going to wire in the bedroom and upstairs first ... and then look to see what I can move downstairs.

Work had some 5-port switches that they were using ... I might see if they have one that they don't need anymore (cough, cough).

ruff_hi

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#8

Post by ruff_hi » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:20 pm

jec6613 wrote:Especially with Cablevision which has very high WAN speeds, it should go like this:

[Modem]--[Edge Router]--[Switch]--[All other devices, including the wireless AP]

The devices should include your Vonage box, as well as your wireless access point. By splitting the router and WAP into two different boxes, you unburden a single CPU of handling both, so both your wireless performance and your routing performance goes up significantly. The Vonage box should be inside the edge, as it's right now restricting your internet speed as it acts as a router of its own, and it's a cruddy one at that.
Thanks for the info. I hear what you are saying but I don't think that my requirements are currently screaming for a separate edge router and WAP. I'll store this info and cycle back to it at a later date.

ruff_hi wrote:I'll be swapping [the vonage phone adapter] over in the morning when everyone is asleep.
Completed. There is no noticeable difference in phone. I haven't tested the internet speed yet (tonight) but moving the vonage adapter behind the router means I lost an outlet port. Another reason for a switch.

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Crash2009

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#9

Post by Crash2009 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:48 pm

Sorry but, a switch is not just a place to plug stuff into. They do have a purpose, and, they are not created equal.

I like Adams analogy (with modifications) the best..... Consumer grade switches may be fine for your grandmother's email, but if you want to move truckloads of video.....

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Crash2009

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#10

Post by Crash2009 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:27 pm

Here is a reverberation of what jec said (I think). Use your existing router as your edge router. Plug everything else into your proposed switch. Your router has got enough work to do being a router. Let the switch do the switching.
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jec6613

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#11

Post by jec6613 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:47 pm

Crash2009 wrote:I like Adams analogy (with modifications) the best..... Consumer grade switches may be fine for your grandmother's email, but if you want to move truckloads of video.....
There's also no particular reason to get a smart or managed switch for that, at least at present. The Netgear ProSafe unmanaged switch series use the same baseband chipsets as the Cisco gear, and are bulletproof reliable - plus they're cheap even new and have a lifetime warranty. The JGS524, for instance, is a very nice and inexpensive switch with huge bandwidth and port capacity. As a bonus, it comes with the rack ears so you can rack it up later.

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#12

Post by sbaeder » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:50 pm

So, you are on the right track now...the cable modem just takes the raw signals from the coax cable, and makes it be ethernet. It has the ONE IP address that is assigned by the ISP. The router takes the WAN, and makes it into a LAN, and handles the local addressing (DHCP). Most consumer "routers" today have switches (the 4 LAN ports) and the WIFI built in.

Check out http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/r ... harts/view as an example (the rest of the site is awesome too) to look into what sort of throughput you might expect. If you have an older router/wifi, it might be time to upgrade that aspect of things as well. I know that when I first went to a DOCSIS 3 modem (50 MBps), the router was limiting me to a lot less (of course, it was an older router that only did 802.11b)

Yes, if you really get into more video (i.e. moving 3-4 12-15 Mbps video streams). you need a switch that can handle it - but as lnong as you have a plan, and watch for bottlenecks, you should be OK to start...Just be sure that you have Gigabit switches, and not just the ones that 100Mbit.

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Crash2009

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#13

Post by Crash2009 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:22 pm

Crash2009 wrote:Here is a reverberation of what jec said (I think). Use your existing router as your edge router. Plug everything else into your proposed switch. Your router has got enough work to do being a router. Let the switch do the switching.
By the way, You can have the router situated anywhere you want (to utilize the Wifi) you just need to run 2 wires for it, to have it do both jobs for you.
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ruff_hi

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#14

Post by ruff_hi » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:02 am

Thanks for the comments, suggestions, links and observations.

A plan is starting to come together which is super short term (insert switch), short-ish term (minimal change from current setup, run Cat6 into bedroom, upstairs) and longer term (relocation of the 'hub'). One thing that I am concerned about is that I don't want to set something up for the short term that is 'invalid' for the longer term.

I'll work on a diagram over the next few days.

FYI - my current wireless router is a 'Medialink Wireless-N Broadband Router (300 Mbps)-2.4GHz-802.11b/g/n' with 4 x 10/100 Mbps LAN ports ... so adding the linksys 5-port 10/100 switch that work gave me won't bring the speed down :lol:.

I tested my internet speed with www.speedtest.net and got 17.6Mbps up and 5.2Mbps down. That is a little slower than normal where I normally hit 20Mbps down but it is coming up to 7pm when everyone gets on line and streams stuff.

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#15

Post by Crash2009 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:15 am

what speed do you get when you plug your computer directly into the Cable Modem? Caution, this procedure is very addictive.

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#16

Post by ruff_hi » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:43 am

Crash2009 wrote:what speed do you get when you plug your computer directly into the Cable Modem? Caution, this procedure is very addictive.
How do I do that?

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#17

Post by adam1991 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:51 am

well, there's speedtest.net.

And my provider has its own speed test web page, inside its network, not affected by external factors. That one tests just the provider network, unaffected by any outside factors. Your provider may have something similar.

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#18

Post by Crash2009 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:21 am

ruff_hi wrote:
Crash2009 wrote:what speed do you get when you plug your computer directly into the Cable Modem? Caution, this procedure is very addictive.
How do I do that?
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/pl ... ge=0&&tt=b

It took awhile to find a video with a good tune.

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#19

Post by ruff_hi » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:50 am

I feel like a dunder head. I was between dog walks and I read your comment as ...
Crash2009 wrote:what speed do you get when you ping your computer directly from the Cable Modem?
... instead of ...
Crash2009 wrote:what speed do you get when you plug your computer directly into the Cable Modem?
Anyway - I can do that when everyone else in the house is asleep.

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#20

Post by Crash2009 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:10 am

Yea, I figured you had something mixed up, but I just answered your question anyway. The easy way is just to get a long patch cable. One that will reach from anywhere to everything. That way you don't have to move/disconnect anything. I was just curious to see if it was better at the modem, and/or if you are getting what you pay for.

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