Slow Network?

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Slow Network?

Post#1 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:26 pm

I'm having an intermittent problem where bluray playback stuters in WMC when said movie is being played from my server WMC Win 7 box to a client Win 7 WMC Box. This happens in WMC, Emby for WMC, and various emby clients. My network configuration goes as folllows, and hopefully someone see something wierd here that they can point out. I haves setup a few different folders as network shares by using the network sharing wizard, and then mapped them as local drives on my client. Thats it, no homegroup or anything like that on any of my machines. Now one thing that baffles me is when I created the network shares I did so using the sharing wizard built into windows 7 but my test client, which is a Win 10 machine, still told me I did not have access to those shares, and they had all had a lock icon next to their folders. In order to solve this problem I had to right click the folder, then go to properties/sharing/advanced sharing and check the share this folder box in order for the lock icon to go away. From here I mapped all the drives as local drives on my win 7 client. What could I be doing wrong.
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Post#2 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:13 am

I run a fairly simple network. Everything is gig going into a 24 port gig switch. All the workstations have a name an are members of the same workgroup. No mapped drives, no network sharing wizard.

Just plain old WMC sharing through libraries. Example...if you have 2 WMC's on the network, all 2 share everything they have. Then when you setup libraries on each one you path each one to each one.

Go to WMC/Tasks/Settings/MediaLibraries

WMC1 shares D:\RecordedTV
WMC2 shares D:\RecordedTV

When you setup wmc2 to see wmc1, libraries will ask you where your stash is...

1-on this computer and mapped drives attached to this computer
2-on a different computer
3-manually add a shared folder will give you the option for username and password as well as setting the network path.

I have never tried sharing my DVD or BlueRay Drives, but if I was going to try, I would map them and share them in WMC using option 1- above
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Post#3 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:16 pm

I had setup an AP on one of my machines for testing, and forgot it was there. I disabled the AP last night, and It improved bluray playback well enough to make it useable. What I can't figure out is why I have so much trouble accessing media from windows 7 on my win 10 laptop.
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Post#4 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:13 am

Sorry. I just re-read this. You at least share the libraries right
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Post#5 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:19 am

jachin99 wrote:Sorry. I just re-read this. You at least share the libraries right
Both PC's need to be members of the same workgroup. On mine, I use one admin account which is the same for both. Admin1 logs into both machines. I'll see if I can dig up my suggested Network Setup.

Here is a bit I wrote on sharing libraries.... Do the same on both WMC's....When you set them up WMC1 will point to its own AND also WMC2...WMC2 both as well

viewtopic.php?p=106171#p106171

Complete WMC Setup Custom starts here....

viewtopic.php?p=106151#p106151

Here is the Network Setup that I use....

viewtopic.php?p=99015#p99015

If you need it...here is where you change the PC name and workgroup

FileManager\RightClickComputer\Properties

If you use HomeGroup, yer on yer own.
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Post#6 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:26 pm

Thanks for the info, and I believe I have solved my problems, and I'll kind of go back over everything just to summarize what I did in case someone else has the same issue. My Primary problem was that large media files were having trouble playing over the network, and I solved this by disabling a WIfI hotspot that had been enabled on my client machine. This must have freed up just enough bandwidth to play buray files across the network. My second problem was I could not access folders on a Win 7 server from a Win 10 client which was solved by giving NETWORK, and NETWORK SERVICE permissions to my shared folders.

Crash as you suggested, it seems to me that as long as each machine is a part of the same workgroup then setting up library sharing, or sharing network drives through either the advanced sharing wizard, or the network sharing wizard (by either setting up the folders to be shared so they are grouped into a library which is then shared - via the network sharing wizard or advanced sharing but more on that later - OR by creating file shares from the folders themselves through the advanced sharing wizard or network sharing wizard) then each machine will see the other's shared resources. I can only assume that my Win 10 machine did not get assigned to the same workgroup as my Win 7 but I don't remember ever explicitly joining a workgroup on any machine ever. IT should be noted that Windows machines come assigned to some workgroup out of the box.

Windows 7 has quite a few options for sharing media, drives, and folders, and it also has different options for assigning "groups" such as homegroup, and workgroup. On top of these options there are libraries, which as far as I can tell a library is just a tool to view multiple folders from one shortcut, and don't actually play any role in how permissions are assigned and files or folders are actually shared. I believe that two methods Windows 7 actually uses to share things are via the network sharing wizard or the advanced sharing wizard, and every other option, view, explorer context menu option, etc are built off of one of these two. Viewing Windows sharing through this perspective simplifies things because it removes the layers of branding Microsoft has layed over the actual protocols windows uses to share things. On top of all of this, we also have the option to map network drives as local drives in order to improve performance BUT this will actually cause programs to crash if they have to access that drive and it isn't available. Here is an explanation of the differences between the different sharing wizards from https://superuser.com/questions/897180/ ... 200/985536.

"The 'Basic' sharing dialog does not apply any permissions on the share level.

Instead it defaults share-level security to allow all and any permissions you set are applied directly to the underlying filesystem. All ACLs are parsed in turn so by setting share-level permissions to allow
everything just means control gets deferred to the filesystem itself.

The reasons for this are simple - so there is just one set of permissions to manage and the same rules are applied to both local and remote access. This is to avoid any conflicts and confusion for basic users. It is
the "basic"/"home user" option after all.

The the "Advanced Sharing" option for administrators applies an additional level of share-level permissions that only act on remote/network access.

This allows advanced users to apply an additional level of access control for network access only, but does not apply any rules to the filesystem itself. As with all ACLs, users must pass both sets of permissions to
gain access so giving users access to the share, but not the filesystem, would not work - hence why this option is protected behind an "Advanced" button "

There was actually a pretty in depth article about all of this from the How To Geek right here https://www.howtogeek.com/school/window ... g/lesson1/

So to summarize everything I just said above there are...
Libraries which are a way to view multiple folders through one click or shortcut
The network sharing wizard which is enabled by default and applies permissions at the folder level
The advanced sharing wizard which has to be enabled in win 7 folder options, and applies permissions at the share level
My Windows 10 machine was not added to the WIn 7 Workgroup and I could not view shared folders on my Win 7 machine. To get around this I gave NETWORK and NETWORK SERVICE permissions to read or write permissions to the shared folders. I'll probably go back, setup libraries, and use the one of the two sharing wizards above later to make things simpler. Also be aware that out of the box, when you right click and share, and unless it specifically states advanced sharing, you are using the "sharing wizard" as in your applying the network sharing wizard's permissions levels. I hope I didn't just confuse the heck out of everyone.
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Post#7 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:34 am

I remember having to add the network service to be a member of the administrators group for a particular version of WMC for Win10. The cmd was necesary to fix scheduled recordings in WMC V11. Someone explained to us, security wise, our fix was a not a good idea, so it was changed with V12.

https://forums.mydigitallife.net/thread ... st-1200603

Here is the quick and dirty method. Elevated of course or use TestRights.

Code: Select all
net localgroup "administrators" "Network Service" /add

net localgroup "administrators" "Network Service" /delete


The 2nd line is how to undo.

Great explanation BTW.
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Post#8 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:53 am

guess I can see where that makes sense from a security point of view because your giving anything else that hooks network, and network services admin privileges. Its most likely not the best idea on mine either but as long as I implemented this right, then my permissions should only apply to my media drives. I think what I need to do is set these permissions on my file share only OR if I can find a way have win 10 see my win 7 drive shares (Possibly through something like workgroup) that would be a better idea. I also setup a network ID on my windows 10 machine but I'm not too sure how that works. Even joining the server's homegroup didn't give my win 10 machine the permissions it needed.
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Post#9 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:47 pm

Have a closer look at Post #5. Specifically the 3rd link. Setup your server like that. Have everybody on the network "Step out of homegroup and Get rid of Homegroup on the server
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Post#10 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:20 am

I'll take another look at those and thanks.
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Post#11 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:27 pm

Here is a blog from microsoft describing the benefits of homegroup: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/e7/200 ... windows-7/ i might try it.
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Post#12 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:10 am

jachin99 wrote:Here is a blog from microsoft describing the benefits of homegroup: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/e7/200 ... windows-7/ i might try it.



Home group is for the newbies, workgroup is working for 20 years.
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Post#13 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:25 pm

More from SuperUser about workgroup. Retrieved From: https://superuser.com/questions/185256/ ... -workgroup

In computer networking, a workgroup is a collection of computers on a local area network (LAN) that share common resources and responsibilities. Workgroups provide easy sharing of files, printers and other network resources. Being a peer-to-peer (P2P) network design, each workgroup computer may both share and access resources if configured to do so.
Perhaps a little bit of Microsoft Windows history would help building the context,
Windows for Workgroups is an extension that allowed users to share their resources and to request those of others without a centralized authentication server. It used the SMB protocol over NetBIOS.
so,
The Microsoft Windows family of operating systems supports assigning of computers to named workgroups. Macintosh networks offer a similiar capability through the use of AppleTalk zones. The Open Source software package Samba allows Unix and Linux systems to join existing Windows workgroups.
Workgroups are designed for small LANs in homes, schools, and small businesses.
A Windows Workgroup, for example, functions best with 15 or fewer computers.
As the number of computers in a workgroup grows, workgroup LANs eventually become too difficult to administer and should be replaced with alternative solutions like domains or other client/server approaches.
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Post#14 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:30 pm

Windows 10 cannot join a workgroup after update 1703. From TechNet, Retrieved From: https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Fo ... networking I saw this mentioned on the emby forums located here: https://emby.media/community/index.php? ... -browsing/

I see this is marked as Answered but shouldn't be. There is no real answer, there are ways to work around the issue at the moment, but they are only temporary. The Computer Browser service is broken in Windows 10 1703 and is gone from future releases of Windows.
Yes, that's right folks, after 25 years of being able to browse our networks Microsoft have decided Workgroup users don't need this functionality any more. This article from Microsoft explains:
SMBv1 is not installed by default in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update 2017 and Windows Server, Semi-annual Channel
They are getting rid of SMB v1.0, which is fair enough, it has real security issues. The Computer Browser service relies on SMB v1.0, rather than upgrade the Computer Browser service so Workgroup users are still able to browse their networks they are simply removing it. From the linked article:
For home and small business users who use Network Neighborhood to locate Windows computers, you shoud map drives to the computers so that you no longer have to browse for them.
Not even spell checked and suggesting we only do it to access data we could map drives to, indicating a total lack of understanding as to why we need network browsing. Network browsing is an essential tool for doing a visual check of which computing resources are available in a Workgroup. The command "net view" allows us to quickly report which computers are available in the Workgroup and thereby use the information to run system reports and perform various tasks. Locating and enabling printers becomes far more difficult without Computer Browsing.
This does not affect AD users, those businesses which need to or have the luxury of being able to invest in server hardware and software. Users who's data is in the cloud, on the internet have less issue, it may only affect attaching printer resources which can be worked around. Of course all Microsoft staff fit into these groups so the lack of browsing functionality in Workgroups is probably insignificant to them.
So what we need now is either a great little tool to browse our networks that doesn't rely on SMB 1.0 or an upgraded Computer Browser service.
The service is broken in Windows 10 Creators 1703. If a 1703 PC is the Master Browser only that computer has Computer Browsing, if a non-1703 is the Master Browser all the non-1703 PCs have Computer Browsing. This is the reason why browsing appears to work sometimes and not others, rebooting PCs forces a Master Browser election, which will change which PC is the Master Browser and can introduce the issue.
To work around the issue involves setting one computer to be the Master Browser. Some people have third party devices on their network they can set to be the Master Browser, all non-1703 can browse. To identify which computer is the Master Browser you can run the command
nbtstat -a ComputerName
for each computer in the Workgroup. The computer that is the Master Browser is the only one that has the value
__MSBROWSE__
in the list.
To set which computer is the Master Browser you need to make registry modifications on that computer. Browse to the registry key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters
Change the value of MaintainServerList from Auto to Yes
If it is not there, add a new String Value IsDomainMaster and set it to True

You may need to reboot to activate this. If you want to be absolutely positive no other PC takes the Master Browser role you can set the value of MaintainServerList from Auto to No on all other PCs in the Workgroup. You may even find that a non Microsoft third party device on the network attempts to take over the Master Browser role.
I re-iterate that this is just a short term workaround, Computer Browsing for workgroups is history for Windows 10. If you know of any great tools for browsing Workgroups that don't rely on the older protocols I'd be happy to hear from you.
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Post#15 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:05 pm

Thanks for the links. I was totally unaware that 1703/1709 display's this unique problem. Such is the Way of M$ to first disable then remove a feature (in the spirit of progress). After viewing the links, and some of the links within the links (The Links are colored Blue), it appears that a good place to start, would be to.....

Enable SMBv1.0 ?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... indows-and

The 2nd step would be to read the links within the links for other suggestions.

Then, go back to my original suggestion.....Dump HomeGroup, and setup WorkGroup.
Attachments
SMB_1.0_CIFS_FileSharingSupport001.jpg
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Post#16 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:49 pm

Here is more about SMB. This matters because I believe SMB is the only application sharing protocol that is native to windows. For transport protocols, windows uses TCP, UDP, or NETBIOS depending on the version of SMB. From: SMB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Message_Block.

SMB / CIFS / SMB1: SMB was originally designed to run on top of the NetBIOS/NetBEUI API (typically implemented with NBF, NetBIOS over IPX/SPX, or NBT). Since Windows 2000, SMB runs, by default, with a thin
layer, similar to the Session Message packet of NBT's Session Service, on top of TCP, using TCP port 445 rather than TCP port 139—a feature known as "direct host SMB"

SMB 2: Start with WIndows Vista, SMB2 includes support for symbolic links. Other improvements include caching of file properties, improved message signing with HMAC SHA-256 hashing algorithm and better
scalability by increasing the number of users, shares and open files per server among others.[17] The SMB1 protocol uses 16-bit data sizes, which amongst other things, limits the maximum block size to 64K.

SMB2 uses 32 or 64-bit wide storage fields, and 128 bits in the case of file-handles, thereby removing previous constraints on block sizes, which improves performance with large file transfers over fast
networks.

SMB 2.1: SMB 2.1, introduced with Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2, introduced minor performance enhancements with a new opportunistic locking mechanism

SMB 3: Introduced with Windows 8, it brought several significant changes that are intended to add functionality and improve SMB2 performance. It also introduces several security enhancements, such as end-
to-end encryption and a new AES based signing algorithm

SMB 3.0.2 (known as 3.02 at the time) was introduced with Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 R2. In those and later releases, the earlier SMB version 1 can be optionally disabled to increase security

SMB 3.1.1 was introduced with Windows 10 and Windows Server 2016.[39] This version supports AES 128 GCM encryption in addition to AES 128 CCM encryption added in SMB3, and implements pre-authentication integrity check using SHA-512 hash. SMB 3.1.1 also makes secure negotiation mandatory when connecting to clients using SMB 2.x and higher.

Over the years, there have been many security vulnerabilities in Microsoft's implementation of the protocol or components on which it directly relies. Other vendors' security vulnerabilities lie primarily in a lack of support for newer authentication protocols like NTLMv2 and Kerberos in favor of protocols like NTLMv1, LanMan, or plaintext passwords. Real-time attack tracking shows that SMB is one of the primary attack vectors for intrusion attempts, for example the 2014 Sony Pictures attack, and the WannaCry ransomware attack of 2017 --END OF WIKIPEDIA

Hopefully all of this digging I'm doing will lead me to a very easy way to share files that anyone can use. I still have my machines on the same workgroup but I wonder if there is some other sharing protocol I could use. Just a little not I'll leave here also. "Network sharing" is different from network file transfer protocols such as FTP in that network sharing involves file transfer, file synchronization (not to be confused with offline sync technologies, such as file or folder sync) and other protocols.
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Post#17 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:56 pm

Here is a little bit about securing SMB. https://kb.iweb.com/hc/en-us/articles/1 ... T-Services
Here is a tidbit about netbios http://digitallachance.com/blog/2009/02 ... r-network/
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Post#18 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:03 pm

Crash2009 wrote:Thanks for the links. I was totally unaware that 1703/1709 display's this unique problem. Such is the Way of M$ to first disable then remove a feature (in the spirit of progress). After viewing the links, and some of the links within the links (The Links are colored Blue), it appears that a good place to start, would be to.....

Enable SMBv1.0 ?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... indows-and

The 2nd step would be to read the links within the links for other suggestions.

Then, go back to my original suggestion.....Dump HomeGroup, and setup WorkGroup.


What is funny is under my turn windows features on or off My smb v1 actually has three options where i can enable or disable letting windows automatically remove SMB 1 after that fifteen day period.
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